Skip to main content

(From the diaries -- kos)

Cindy Sheehan phoned me from Texas a few minutes ago to say that she's been informed that beginning Thursday, she and her companions will be considered a threat to national security and will be arrested.  Coincidentally, Thursday is the day that Rice and Rumsfeld visit the ranch, and Friday is a fundraiser  event for the haves and the have mores.  Cindy said that she and others plan to be arrested.
http://www.meetwithcindy.org

NOTE:
CODE PINK is reporting that the idea of Thursday arrests started with speculation, not a threat from authorities. I am unable to confirm or deny that.

Meanwhile, I have a voice message from Cindy saying that they left their spot on the side of the road because of a storm and now the Sherrif's men are trying to post no trespassing signs and force them to leave. I am unable to confirm or deny this or provide any more details.

UPDATE:
I got Cindy on the phone and she continued to maintain that the threat of arrest was real, but said that it came to her via Diane Wilson. I spoke to Diane, who said that it came from Texas State Rep Lon Burman, a Democrat. She said that he was not speaking on behalf of or communicating any information from the Bush Administration or the Secret Service or the Sheriff's Department. But she maintained that what he had predicted was already starting.

Both Sheehan and Wilson said that the County Sherrif's deputies on Saturday identified several areas as county property on which they could stand. Now they claim that most of these area are private property, and that they had not known that. So, this afternoon the deputies forced Cindy and about 25 people with her onto one small area on one side of a road.

Wilson said that they threatened arrest if anyone refused to move to the proper small area. Cindy was skeptical of the claims about who owned the land. "Can you believe that on the road to the President's house they don't know exactly who owns it?"

Both she and Wilson said they expected they would get arrested Thursday. Cindy said, "I think we need as many people here on Thursday anyway, because Rice and Rumsfeld will be here....I'd rather not get arrested, but I'm willing to, I'm willing to have them pick me up and carry me away."

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:55 AM PDT.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  What? (4.00)
    We are truly living in a police state. sigh

    "You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." -Malcolm X

    by PsiFighter37 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 09:41:41 AM PDT

    •  Do you have any more details? (4.00)
      Did the individual(s) making the threat identify themselves?

      Were there many witnesses when the statements were made? Were any of the witnesses not participants of the group supporting Cindy Sheehan (i.e., members of the media)?

      The unfortunate experiences of the Denver Three keep coming to mind.

      •  What are they going to arrest her for? (none)
        That's another question...
        •  We're working on it (4.00)
          The Dallas ACLU is trying to coordinate some kind of observing team.
          •  This is the best thing that could happen (none)
            The only way to really get publicity and sympathy these days is to A.) Get Arrested or B.) Get Killed.  Since nobody would want to see option B, this is actually pretty good news.

            Trust me, getting arrested is not fun, but the image is priceless.  This is a p.r. battle to convince Bush to withdraw from Iraq, or at least make him acknowledge his mistakes, and anything that will further depress Bush's image with the general public is a good thing.

            If Bush had any balls whatsoever, he would simply meet with her, put up with 30 minutes of an angry mother, thank her for the sacrifice, and be done with it. But this is the same guy who refused to meet with Max Cleland last year, so such a meeting is unlikely. Bush has zero gonads whatsoever.

            The resulting headlines: Mother of Slain Soldier Arrested Outside of Bush's Ranch.  

            This will not play well for Bush, not at all.  It's Nixonian.  Lots of parents who lost sons and daughters in Iraq now question the war, and I don't think they would like to see one of their own treated like this by the President.

        •  King's Law (none)
          she'll be arrested for insulting the Preznit.
          •  Just one "crazed" women... (none)
            until there are more mother's, wives and father's doing the same, she'll just be considered one publicity driven Mom whose gone over the top.

            With Drudge now spreading the positive interview she gave in 2004 when she did meet with the President, her "story" is already tainted.

            It will take more than one greiving Mom to paint the picture needed to gain major traction.

            George W. Bush - Often wrong, but never in doubt!

            by auapplemac on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:11:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  you can bet the WH fed that stuff to Drudge (none)
              The WH knows every time Cindy has gone to the bathroom for the last 5 years, and everything she ever did in her life, for that matter. Certainly they have her under 24 hour surveillance as we speak. Certainly from the ground, but probably from the air as well.

              You might as well get ready for it, because you are gonna hear the smears, the truth, the lies, everything. If Cindy is like most people there will be some things she's not exactly anxious to put on the front page.

              just know that it's gonna happen. That's the game they play, and they live or die with it. It's worked for them so far. They may not realize this is different. So be it. Godspeed to Cindy.

              Be a Carville, not a Colmes

              by seesdifferent on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:27:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  corollary (none)
                if you're right, then "they"'re reading this thread too.

                Is there anything anyone wants to tell them?

                •  have Jenna sign up to drive trucks in Iraq (none)
                  and Cindy will go away. (I bet).

                  Be a Carville, not a Colmes

                  by seesdifferent on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 02:01:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  more Iraqi moms = 21st century Iron-Jawed Angels (none)
                    I wish other Iraqi moms would join her- including some lifelong Republicans.

                    Non-violent but dramatic protests in front of his ranch (especially while the entire WH press corps is there, bored and hot)would be dramatic on a potentially historic scale, similar to the suffragists in front of the WH during WWI.  Getting arrested can do even more to tarnish Bush's image.  

                    The Republicans must pay a price for the lies (justifying the war) and incompetency (wasting our military resources, losing the unnecessary war and destabilizing the entire region). It's going to take brave Americans like Ms. Sheehan to raise the stakes.  

                     

                  •  I like that! (none)
                    ah, now that is something I would like to see.

                    Hope has not failed until the last person gives up the fight.

                    by gbreez on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 04:31:37 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Parents who have (none)
              spoken up are very harshly treated. Just ask the father of Nick Berg.

              Yestermorrow
              Information withheld is opportunity denied

          •  my god. what a brave woman. (none)
          •  I have a book for Cindy (none)
            Out of our childhoods:

            Yertle The Turtle

            http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0394800877/qid=1123545667/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_ur_2_1/102-6226 575-0308915

            May she be the one to shake the throne of the king.

        •  The crime of being Unpatriotic. (none)
          It's been a crime since 9/11.

          "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." Aesop

          by Heartcutter on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:52:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The uniformed division of the Secret Service (none)
          has some of the broadest arrest powers in the world.

          They don't need much of an excuse to detain someone just to get them out of the way of the President.

          Obviously, if they can't find any evidence you intended to do harm, they release you--after the event and after the President has left.  Very convenient.

          I do not believe the President's ranch is considered public property, so they certainly can change the rules of engagement here in order to "protect the President."

          They've given her advanced warning.  As far as they're concerned, the rest is up to her.

          Bad public relations and she enters a great company of folks who have been arrested for civil disobedience.

          •  She's 2 miles from the ranch (none)
            She's sitting on the shoulder of a public highway five miles from the ranch, where she was stopped by the local cops and prevented from going onwards. Unless she is hiding a SCUD missile in those baggy shorts of hers, the only threat she poses to the President is the possibility of hurting his poor widdle feelings as he drives by....

            - Badtux the Snarky Penguin

            Religious conservatives are motivated by the suspicion that someone, somewhere, is having fun.

            by badtux on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 02:23:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I would agree with you. (none)
            But I wonder if this is the POLITICAL Secret Service that's stirring up this smelly pot?

            You know, the officers names are like Charles Bird, Hinderocket, and Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh, maybe?

            Politically it's stupid to arrest this woamn.  However, it's also stupid to interfere in the confirmation of a supreme court nominee too, but that hasn't stopped Rove so far.

            "same old fears, same old crimes-we haven't changed since ancient times.." "Iron Hand" Dire Straits

            by boilerman10 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 02:30:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Are they set up to arrest 1 Million Americans? (none)
            Shouldn't someone be organizing a Million Patriots For Peace in Crawford to take place in the next couple of days?? Why a few dozen, or a 1,000....screw that.....get one million people to surround Crawford and Bush's little house.

            Bush won't answer to the American people? Let's see the TV footage of the Secret Service airlifting him out of the compound because 1 million advocates for democracy and open government showed up at his doorstep demanding answers.

        •  Getting an unpleasant fact (none)
          in front of the emperor's new clothes.

          "Too many policemen, no liberty; Too many soldiers, no peace; Too many lawyers, no justice." Lin Yutang (1895-1976)

          by ogre on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 02:03:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Absent these details... (3.00)
        I'd take this with a grain of salt. Is it a local playing games? Law Enforcement delivering official notice? sympathetic cop speaking off the record?

        What's the deal?

        No-one who voted against the USAPATRIOT Act has lost an election. I am not currently Licensed to Practice in this State. Or Yours.

        by ben masel on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:11:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well put. (4.00)
          I did a Yahoo! news search and looked on SFGate, NY Times, CNN, and WaPo and saw nothing on it.  And yet there are already 15 diaries arranging trips and calling on lawyers and Senators to descend on Crawford.
        •  David looks pretty legitimate... (none)
          David's bona fides look pretty trustworthy, and he says he spoke with Cindy, not "I heard from somebody who heard from somebody...".

          And I would think that Cindy's experienced enough to know a legit threat from a hoax.

          ...Freedom is on the march. Straight to the gas chamber. this is infidelica...

          by snookybeh on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:50:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm not doubting David or Cindy's (none)
            veracity, but I am wondering if she's being played. Just doesn't make sense for them to wait 3 days if they've already decided to bring down the boot.

            No-one who voted against the USAPATRIOT Act has lost an election. I am not currently Licensed to Practice in this State. Or Yours.

            by ben masel on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:00:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Didn't make sense (none)
              for them to go to war on Iraq in response to 9/11 or to cut taxes for the wealthy during wartime, either, but that didn't stop them.

              Reality-based, they aren't. It ought to be their downfall. Here's hoping.

            •  It does make sense (none)

              First of all you tell her that she will be arrested.  Maybe this scares her off.  Not very likely but worth a shot.

              Secondly in the the event that you do choose to arrest her your propaganda drones will fill the air waves with spew about how "she was warned repeatedly" and "she was given every opportunity to desist but she forced the cops hand".

              What's the negative to this?  There is so much plausible deniability that an already weak accusation of police state tactics (after all police states actually arrest people they don't just hint they will) won't stick to anyone.  If really pressed they can probably paint this threat as coming from some poor sheriff, who, overwhelmed by the responsibility of having the most important man in the free world on his patch may have exceeded his authority a little bit. He's a national hero really...

              I don't know if anyone asks this downthread, but to be arrested for trespass shouldn't there be a complaint from the landowner?

      •  Conflicting statements from Secret Service (none)
        From nbc5i.com (Dallas/Ft. Worth):

        She alleged that Secret Service agents in Crawford were trying to coerce her into leaving. She said the agents have told protesters that if they stay along the road, about five miles from Bush's ranch, they may be hit by Secret Service vehicles.

        The Secret Service in Washington said it was unaware of any such incidents.

        "We respect the right of the public to demonstrate to express their views," said Secret Service spokesman Jonathan Cherry. "Our goal is to have a safe environment for our protectees -- in this case -- the president -- and the demonstrators who want to express their views."

        I do not doubt that someone threatened Cindy Sheehan with arrest. But, the official statements aren't quite matching up.

        •  it's not like this hasn't happened eafore (none)
          remember <this? http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/04/24/secret_service_eyes_volunteer_who_tossed_3_from_bush_event>

          of course that one ended with a slap on the wrist.

          Cindy is a much more sympathetic figure than Bush is-or Rove calculates. Imperial Hubris, anyone?

          "There are times in politics when you must be on the right side and lose." John Kenneth Galbraith

          by susanp on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:02:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  What the hell WOULD they say? (none)
          Officially "Yes, we warned her, and those protestors better watch their asses" wouldn't really play very well constitutionally.

          Most reforms, most problems are complicated. But to me there is nothing complicated about ordinary equality.-Alice Paul

          by boadicea on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 03:00:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I just listened to Cindy on the Ed Schultz show... (none)
        I didn't catch anything but the very tail end where she said something about "unless I'm in jail on Thursday"

        Anyone else catch her on Ed's show?

        The only Bush I trust is my own - I want my freaking democracy back!

        by mytribe on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:45:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The only Bush I trust is my own (none)
          My God, mytribe, did you coin this experession?  It is so brilliant, it's going to have me giggling for days.  I think I'll have it tattooed on something.  I think I'll embroider it on a pillow.  It should certainly be a bumper sticker!!!!  

          And if it didn't originate with you..., it's still brilliant.  I apologize for being oblivious to this brilliance.  

          I propose that it should be our slogan for 2006!!

          •  no its not mine... (none)
            I saw a girl wearing it on a shirt at the Kerry rally in Madison WI last fall. I asked her if I could take a picture, she said yes, but my camera batteries died right then and there.

            In any case...the saying holds a lot of truth for millions of women ;)

            The only Bush I trust is my own - I want my freaking democracy back!

            by mytribe on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 03:04:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Yep (none)
          There's a lot of support for her in Ed Schultz land.  She talked about the time the prez visited with her family right after her son died.  He didn't know any of their names, kept referring to her son as "the loved one," gave her daughter a loathsome look when she made a catty remark after a few minutes of this sort of thing.  He was very cold and perfunctory. She remarked on the fact that the rightwing press has been making a big deal over the fact that the things she said right after that meeting are contradictory to what she says now.  She says she was in shock over her son's death at the time and that they will do anything to discredit anyone (Really??? I didn't know that!!!).  Some local legislator whose name she didn't reveal had given her the tip off about the possible arrest on Thursday.

          A lot of people were calling Ed to offer support.  Some were going down.  There was one woman who was very moving.  Her son is in Iraq; she was all choked up and she wants to go down because she feels powerless and it's the only thing she sees that she can do.  I think the site is taking up a collection for her.  There was another woman with a toddler son who was also practically in tears, imagining that this could be her son in a few years.  It was a very moving show.

      •  Thurs. is three days away (none)
        We don't know all the facts. Cindy Sheehan's compelling story is getting adequate covg, and it's a story that is getting notice with just herself and a minimal amount of other support. A bit of advice is to see how developments unfold.
    •  Get her legal counsel fast! (4.00)
      The earlier she has good representation, the better.  Sombody get in touch with the ACLU or any other volunteer organization.  Don't let her be processed with a federal crime without a team of very good lawyers!

      Is there an experienced lawyer in the house!

      •  Just let it happen. (4.00)
        Let the world see what Bush really thinks of mothers who go through the ultimate sacrifice.
        •  NYTimes Most Emailed List (none)
          Last night I posted a diary in which I suggested that we all use the "email this article" function on nytimes.com to send the good Cindy story from today's paper around.  

          I just checked and it's number 7 on the NYT list of most emailed articles.  

          Cindy's story is getting some traction!  

          I hope this business about the arrest is just a threat by some local yokel lawmen.

          The notion that Cindy needs some lawyers down there is a good one.  I would also suggest that maybe a US congressperson or two should show up. They're mostly lawyers, right?

          •  Good point (none)
            It would be nice if a congressman or two showed up.
            •  Whose district is Crawford in? (none)
              n/t
              •  Chet Edwards (none)
                He was one of the DeLaymander's targets last year--they redrew his Waco-based district to include some DFW burbs, but he still won.
              •  Chet Edwards (none)
                the only Democrat to survive redistricting.

                Alex
                Choose Our President 2008

                •  He needs to get arrested (4.00)
                  with her.

                  What a badge of honor, to be arrested by the Bush machine.

                  The Republican Party: Redefining Oppression for the 21st Century

                  by daveriegel on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:10:01 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Ironic that he's (4.00)
                  W's representative in Congress.
                •  Chet Edwards Website (none)
                  for email (it's an online form, but you have to put in the zip code and area code for Crawford, as only Texas is shown on the form...see below) is here

                  Mr. Edwards,

                  I expect to see you outside the Bush ranch standing next to Cindy Sheehan prior to or during her pre-announced arrest on Thursday as a national security threat. Since your automated email form excludes anyone from any other state writing to you, I put in the Crawford zip (76638) and area code (254).  My correct address is ... and my phone number is ....  My email is correct.

                  Show some guts and some support for a woman who speaks for many.

                  s

                  The rhetoric of the right wing is being fixed around the policy of disinformation.

                  by MoronMike on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:56:39 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I sincerely disagree with having a Dem involved (4.00)
                    call me crazy. But I think it detracts. It suddenly becomes: Dems try to embarass Bush.

                    I don't like it at all.

                    imho.

                    Be a Carville, not a Colmes

                    by seesdifferent on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:17:06 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  There should be more (none)
                      They need to decide just what they stand for... then stand for it. It needs to be Dems... Greens... Libertarians... whoever. The more the merrier. All parties are effected by this "war" not just Dems. Likewise there should be minority leaders as many that die are minorities.. No it should not be Dems against Bushco... it should be everyone against Bushco...any Republican with a spine would be more than welcome to join...Any group opposed to the war should be there...what kind of signal does it send to this country when they will only oppose these things from a safe distance.

                      This is a statement that needs to be in unison.

                      "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -Martin Luther King, Jr. _______ "We will not be silent." -Howard Dean

                      by jigsaw68 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:32:23 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  I disagree (none)
                      So what if he's a Democrat? Democrat, Republican, Green, Socialist, Reform, or anything else, as an American, he should be embarassed that the President treats the deaths of his soldiers and the grief of their mothers so callously.
                    •  Okay, SD, you're crazy. (none)
                      Yes, it MIGHT be spun that way on Faux News, but I think the possibility of the vision of Dems standing together far outweighs potential negative press.  Crikee, even al-Jazeera is on top of this story.  It can only get worse for Bush, not better.

                      The rhetoric of the right wing is being fixed around the policy of disinformation.

                      by MoronMike on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:42:19 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  good idea (none)
              we need to get media out there.

              i personally don't have a problem with her being arrested. it's wrong but it may be a political & media blunder for them.  i applaud her willingness to do so for her convictions.

              let's get her some help & videos.  let's document this & make sure it gets press.  arresting her may stir the hornets' nest.

        •  I agree. Let it happen. (4.00)
          She should, of course, be as well represented by legal counsel as possible, but then, let Bush make this blunder.

          And if were me, I'd drag it out as long as possible. It would be tempting to have them arrest a lot of Gold Star mothers all at once on the first day. I would wait, though.  

          I would let Cindy be arrested the first day, then I would have as many other mothers of soldiers as I could find and who are willing to be arrested show up, one per day, for as long as there are mothers to be arrested, This provides a new news story every day.

          Day 1: Cindy Sheehan, grieving mother arrested.
          Day 2: Another grieving mother arrested.
          Day 3. Yet another grieving mother arrested.
          Day 4: Standoff continues, fourth grieving mother arrested.
          Day 5: Another grieving mother arrested. How many grieving mothers can Bush put in jail?
          Day 6: Standoff at Crawford: a CNN Special Report. "I'm Wolf Blitzer, welcome back to our continuing coverage..."

          Etc. I would probably also have only Cindy and other mothers of Iraq veterans be arrested. This keeps the focus off of the amorphous group that might otherwise be labeled "the protesters", and puts it on "mothers of Iraq veterans".

          In addition, if one mother is arrested per day alone, it gives the media an opportunity each day to focus on that one person's very personal story:

          • Who is this mother?
          • Who was her son or daughter that gave their life?
          • Under what circumstances did the daughter or  son lose their life?
          • What about the son's or daughter's family that are now left behind?
          • What about the children that will never see their mom or dad again?

          I would also have each mother that is arrested on a given day be from a different area of the country than the previous day, if possible: Northeast, then Midwest, then South, then West, etc. This gives a regional focus to a given day's story, and allows regional and local coverage to get involved. It also gives the citizens of a particular region someone they can specifically identify with.    
          •  Excellent suggestion (none)
            Keep it non-politcal by not having Dem politicians there. The focus should be on the War Victims and the debacle Iraq policy and that supporting the troopd does not equate with supporting a failed policy based on lies.
          •  Arresting Mothers (none)
            Great Idea!

            But I can't go to Texas, it's 1000 miles from Knoxville and I won't fly. But I've come up with an idea that might work for all those mothers like me whose hearts break for what she is going through. BTW I don't have anyone in the military. That isn't necessary to understand a mother's depth of passion for this cause.

            When we find out which agency is threatening her with arrest and for what reason, people in their own home towns can email that agency (say secret service) and say something like:

            If I was able to be to Crawford, TX on Thursday, you would arrest me with Cindy Sheehan for the crime of ___.

             Being an honest, law abiding citizen, I feel compelled to let you know that although I can't be in Crawford with Ms. Sheehan, I completely agree with what she is doing.

            Therefore I will be at my home awaiting your call or your presence. I have a bag packed and will not resist arrest.

            I'm not much of a writer but you get the idea. Do you think it's of value?

            •  Don't Have to Go to Crawford to Get Arrested (none)
              Just sit down in front of the entrance of the nearest Federal Building or Armed Forces Recruiting Station before they open in the morning (or after). Have local media there. Notify national news outlets so that they can get the video from their local affiliates. A snowball effect would be great.

              "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral

              by Christopher Day on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:05:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  It's unbelievable (none)
            How politically tone deaf this administration can be sometimes. How's it going to look when police handcuff the mother of a dead soldier and put her in the back of a police car, while Bush cowers inside his ranch?

            But I agree, let them make this blunder. It would be something if more of these moms came forward to stand in Sheehan's stead, should she be arrested.

            Terrance Heath
            Washington, DC
            terrancedc@earthlink.net
            http://www.republicoft.com

            by TerranceDC on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:56:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  They don't care (none)
              The thugs and goons who are behind the Bushevik regime understand only one law, and that is the law of the gun. They have the guns. They see nor eason why they need obey any other law. After all, even if a court decided to slap them down for crimes, what's the court going to do? Scold them? Oh wah, they smirk at the very notion.

              Or as President Andrew Jackson is reputed to have said once Justice Marshall found the removal of the Cherokees illegal, "Justice Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." And sent the soldiers right out to put the Cherokee out onto the Trail of Tears.

              Thugs and goons just laugh at law, unless it's useful for their own goonery. And thugs and goons is what we have ruling our nation today.

              - Badtux the Cynical Penguin

              Religious conservatives are motivated by the suspicion that someone, somewhere, is having fun.

              by badtux on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 02:36:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe get a few people singing (none)
            "We shall overcome..."

            "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines" Steven Wright

            by wrights on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 02:40:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Super Idea! (none)
            Really excellent! eom.

            Hope has not failed until the last person gives up the fight.

            by gbreez on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 05:17:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Brilliant (none)
            I hate that we have to strategize the grief of moms like this, but dammit! Something has to get through to the American people!

            When Jesus said love your enemies, I'm pretty sure he meant don't kill them.

            by donailin on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 05:52:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  NLG are the people to call (4.00)
        National Lawyers Guild.  They are even to the left of the ACLU and have tons of experience with legal fights over demonstrations and rallies.

        Personally I'd love to see them justify how Sun-Wed she's a harmless citizen, but then she becomes a "threat to national security" (not even sure that's a real chargeable offense) on Thursday.   Are they citing the Idle/Chapman, "Right, that's Enough of You Then " Act of 1967?

        But if Cindy's ready for it; being arrested is the absolute BEST possible thing that could happen to promote her cause.   You think its making news Now?

        Wait till a grieving Gold Star Mother of a slain soldier is hauled off in handcuffs for wanting to talk to her president.....

        of such symbols are revolutions made.

        Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

        by Magorn on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:47:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Chargeable offenses are so pre-9/11 (4.00)
          I'm surprised they haven't clamped down with some bastard child of state's secrets and tried to haul her off to Gitmo by now.  These people are monsters, but great PR for Dems.

          Just think of the commercial for the 2006 cycle:

          "Number of military funerals attended by President Bush since the invasion of Iraq: 0

          Number of mothers who buried their sons and daughters because of Iraq, who Bush has subsequently arrested: 1.

          It's not a game anymore."

          How do you eat an elephant? A piece at a time.

          by electricgrendel on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:50:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Patriot act (none)
          she's a freakin terrorist.

          just speculatin'

          Be a Carville, not a Colmes

          by seesdifferent on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:51:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  take a 4 for Monty Python (4.00)
          reference. LOVE IT! LOL

          Oh, and everything else you said was good, too.

          Your hands are shaking, Popinjay!

          by Maine Atticus on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:54:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Indeed... (4.00)
          >>the Idle/Chapman, "Right, that's Enough of You Then " Act of 1967?<<

          MPFC was real compared to the Bushco altered reality.

          This is CLASS WAR, and the other side is winning.

          by Mr X on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:55:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  She won't be the first one. (none)
          Remember the mom of a dead soldier who dared yell out a question at one of his "town hall meetings?" They hauled her off in handcuffs.
          •  the difference, and Why Cindy is a genius (none)
            Cindy is doing this exactly right.  Shgouting at a rally never works.  You can't really be heard, The crowd can drown you out, and its too easy to make you look dangerous or crazy (not to mention giving the speaker a chance to look gracious by ignoring you).  Cindy had the genius to make herself the message.  She is calm, dignified and adamant about what she wants.  Her message is plain to see simply by looking at her, and its impossible to dismiss her as "the crazy ranting woman".

            Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

            by Magorn on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:10:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I emailed bonddad (none)
        I bet he knows some liberal Houston/Austin lawyers.

        Be a Carville, not a Colmes

        by seesdifferent on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:50:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Join the ACLU (4.00)
        When a citizen is arrested for nothing more than embarrassing Dear Leader - it highlights just how important legal defense groups like the ACLU are.

        I joined in late 03, but am embarrassed to say I let my membership lapse earlier this year.

        Just rectified that situation - if you're not a member, take a moment to join or contribute here.  While respecting the work of other left-leaning legal defense groups, I humbly submit that there is no greater defender of our civil liberties than the ACLU.

    •  Is anyone planning on video blogging this? (3.50)
      Really, video blogging, or video podcasting the arrest would be a good thing.

      6/24/05: Charlie the Tuna Creator Dies En lieu of flowers, please bring mayonnaise, chopped celery and paprika.

      by LunkHead on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:51:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Confirmation?! (none)
      Could we get someone else to call Cindy and get a confirmation of sorts?! Because that link isn't working for me.
    •  Live WebCam? (4.00)
      Does she have one?  I can't get through to the meetwithcindy.org website to check.  If she doesn't have one, she ought to get one.  And maybe do a Frist Filibuster kind of thing.  
      It would be kinda cool to see the crowd building over time as well. And, not that heat stroke is in any way desirable, but a few shots of people really suffering from the weather would demonstrate the right degree of determination.  Might prompt donations of water, ice, sunscreen, etc.  
      She has a good cause.  What she needs is drama.  

      "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

      by goldberry on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:23:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  C R A Z Y....... (4.00)
      "Beginning Thursday, she will be considered a threat to national security."

      What the H is that?  Today, she is not a threat, but Thursday, she will be a threat?  Does the law change by day of the week?  

      This abusive alley-thug presidency has got to be stopped!  Preventing U.S. citizens from events where their tax dollars fund a presidential address.  Bullying people who have the wrong bumper sticker on their car.  Impersonating the Secret Service for political ends.  Engaging in character assassination of a highly praised diplomat under Bush I.

      And now.... now.... Declaring the MOTHER of a fallen soldier "a threat to national security" based on the day of the week???

      Is there no limit to the abuse of the law and our citizenry?  Does the president have no shame at all? (no, of course he doesn't).  Since when did this cowardly phony cowboy-bully become king?  

      (He doesn't have cattle and horses on his "ranch" because he's afraid of big animals. Horses sense his fear and won't let him ride them. The sod probably sees them in his dry shakes unreformed alcoholic dreams.)

    •  kudos to all the people that go to Texas (none)
      to get arrested, I hope it completely bogs down the jail system down there.

      Horray Cindy.  You have 100 times my courage and a million times that of Bush.

    •  Has Anyone Been Able To Confirm (none)
      this with another source?  I trust the diarist here, however nothing's showing up on the search engines and I haven't seen anything on GSFP's web-site.
    •  CORRECTION: Cindy Sheehan arrest only speculation (none)

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

      by Lestatdelc on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 03:23:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  well technically... (none)
      She is trespassing.
  •  Crawford or no Crawford (4.00)
    Bush cannot take the heat, no matter how much twang he affects for public consumption.
    •  This will backfire on Bush (4.00)
      Cindy Sheehan has already won the hearts of the media with her cool, honest discourse. If Bush arrests this mother of a deceased soldier it will backfire bigger than a Texas belt buckle. I call bluff.
      •  Agreed (none)
        But we must assume that a large media campaign will still be needed. Kossacks, at the ready, on your marks...

        When will you be "ready to fight fifty years to win"?

        by A Ball of Lint on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:40:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well (4.00)
          As the New Pravda article mentions, this is happening right in front of the entire White House press corps, which is stuck in Crawford for the month bored.  Getting press coverage should be no problem.  What I want to know is what the Republicans plan to use to smear her.

          This aggression will not stand, man.

          by kaleidescope on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:57:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  It is either a bluff (4.00)
        or a real error.

        I was idly surfing TV at noon today...something I never do at that time...and I came upon the NYC CBS affiliate's noon news. Didn't even know there was such a thing as noon news.

        Anyway...I lingered for a moment, expecting nothing. Local news is local news, and I don't watch much of ANY of it unless there is some kind of foul-up in the city. So what comes on?

        A good three minutes on Ms. Sheehan, ALL of it in her favor. Her talking about Bush's cowardice, signs behind her referring to chickenhawks...the works. And not a whiff of condescension or mockery from the local newsmuffins.

        She has struck a chord in the hearts of Americans everywhere, I think. BushCo martyrs her...no matter how slightly...at their own risk.

        Which, given their current panic due to Fitzgerald, the AIPAC boys, the bad news from Iraq, etc. is a risk that they may very well take.

        "NEWS AT 11 !!!"

        I hope so.

        Pile on, folks. They're on the run.

        Charles

        •  I'm not convinced (none)
          that it's an error on GW's part.

          The reality of power, especially power without accountablity which is what GW now has, the reality is that you can do whatever you want with impunity.

          Has Lieberman apologized for Cindy yet?

    •  Bush (4.00)
      He's a coward. Plain and simple.
      •  No kidding. (none)
        He's such a chicken-shit chicken-hawk of a President. He doesn't even have the gumption of meeting with a woman who has lost a son in his war for oil.

        He talks about soldiers paying the ultimate price, but he's not worth a plug nickel.

        If she shames him for being on a 5 week vacation while soldiers are dying and makes him get his lazy butt back to the office...now that would be a true risk to national security.

    •  Total. Political. Suicide. (4.00)
      Can't believe these idiots think this is a good idea.  Rove must be losing his mind.

      "I have no clue" - Bill O'Reilly quoted completely out of context. Hey fair's fair right?

      by chicagochamp on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:48:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  That's exactly (4.00)
    what drives my hatred of everything BushCo. They're taking away any right to protest or dissent, what a bunch of lowlife, evil bastards.
    •  They may live to regret this (4.00)
      Given Allen's comments of the other day, it seems like some of the higher profile GOPers just want Bush to make Cindy go away. Talk to her, take away Cindy's reason to insist she should be spoken to, then make it a non-story for the media.

      But if they arrest her, it will be a VERY BIG media story, and will continue to be one.

      This is the way democracy ends Not with a bomb But with a gavel -Max Baucus

      by emptywheel on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:15:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was thinking the same thing (4.00)
        Everytime Ghandi or Matin Luther King was jailed their support swelled.  I wish I was free to go to Crawford and support her.  The more people that show up in Crawford the greater the embarrassment will be to the administration.
        •  So so I. (none)
          Comer to think of it, everyone should go!  What are they going to do if that happens, arrest everyone?  

          "Free speech is not to be regulated like diseased cattle and impure butter." William O. Douglas.

          by Street Kid on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:47:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I don't think a mass demo is best (none)
          besides, it would be hard to get a huge number. I think a tiny number is best. 3. add a clergyman for 4. Makes the national security thing totally ridiculous.

          Be a Carville, not a Colmes

          by seesdifferent on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:53:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I disagree (none)
            The more arrests the bigger the headlines.  More people force their hands and makes them vulnerable to miscalculation.
            •  you're both right (4.00)
              best strategy though would be to keep the big crowd well separate from cindy so they would have to arrest her separately.  otherwise you'll hear them saying "obviously one war mother camped out by the president's ranch is not a problem, but once it became thousands of people on a county road..."

              we'd better decide now if we are going to be fearless men or scared boys.
              — e.d. nixon, montgomery improvement association

              by zeke L on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:20:50 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  "Join" her locally (4.00)
                There should be a huge number of concerted local protests all over the country in her honor (in fact, I could use a break from shouting down the four anti-abortion whack jobs at the hospital around the corner). Maybe MoveOn could organize it ...

                "Nature favors the apt, not the strong or the weak." Louis Sullivan

                by Lilibeth on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:42:46 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  PS (none)
                Then we could make local as well as national news.

                "Nature favors the apt, not the strong or the weak." Louis Sullivan

                by Lilibeth on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:43:37 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  exactly (none)
                as soon as arrests are made, thos unfamiliar with most protesting would assume someone did something blatantly illegal instead of simply tryint to prove their point.  and since i feel this is a valid cause for protest, i don't want cindy's message to be hindered in any way by latchkey, superficial, pile on the pickup protests for non-issues.  this is important, and i feel bringing an entire mass of people will only clog what little serious coverage cindy is finally getting.

                If I knew it was going to be this bad, I would have aborted myself

                by als10 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 02:53:42 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  What do you want (3.00)
              those headlines to read?

              "Thousands of Anti-War Protestors Arrested Near Bush's Ranch"

              or

              "Mother of Slain Soldier Seeking Audience with Bush Jailed"

              I say save the mass demos until after any arrest.

              •  They never arrest all the protestors (none)
                Besides there isn't enough room in Crawford's or Waco's jails.  Quite simply more people draw more media.
                •  They don't need jails (none)
                  In Texas, when things get too big for the local jails, they just haul you down to the local high school and put you in the football stadium for as long as it takes to process you out. If they're feeling really nice, they'll even haul a couple of porta-potties out there, else you'll be standing in your own piss and poop. If you want to stage a big protest in Texas, stage it on a Friday morning during football season when you know that the local high schools have home games that evening. And hope there's not a nearby high school with an away game.

                  - Badtux the Former Texan Penguin

                  Religious conservatives are motivated by the suspicion that someone, somewhere, is having fun.

                  by badtux on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 02:43:07 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  very off topic (none)
                    but have you seen these HIGH SCHOOL stadiums they've already built and are planning to make across texas?  professional grade stadiums with furnished locker rooms (furnished as in leather couches/redwood lockers as in better than my actual HOUSE that i live in) and huge, multi-million dollar video scoreboards

                    If I knew it was going to be this bad, I would have aborted myself

                    by als10 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 06:23:56 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  That wasn't my question (none)
                  My question was what do you want the headlines to say. And what I meant was that I don't think the former (thousands of anti-war crazies arrested) is the most effective for our cause.
      •  This will make an her an international cause (4.00)
        The next Nelson Mandela.

        I don't want to see her arrested.  But I will be gratified to see her visibility and standing magnified exponentially.  I don't doubt that she will be gratified as well.

        There isn't anything Bushco can do about it.  She has already won this battle.  The remaining question is about how much Bush will lose.

        Take it to him Mrs. Sheehan!

        The Axis of Evil runs somewhere between K Street and Constitution Avenue.

        by DanielMN on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:38:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If She's Arrested (none)
          Hopefully there'll be another gold star mother to take her place.  (And I say this hoping beyond hope that there will be no more gold star mothers ever.)

          This aggression will not stand, man.

          by kaleidescope on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:00:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  exactly so Daniel-san (4.00)
          She has made her very powerlessness into a  power that can scare the "most powerful man in the world" clean out of his boots.  This is Moral Judo on a black belt level.  Bush cannot attack Cindy without destroying himself even more.  No one can question her patriotism or sacrifice, no one can attack her grief, without seeming like a far greater monster than they do now

          She IS "what we are fighting for " personified. She IS the Home front, She IS the Mom in "Mom, Apple Pie and the Flag" and the fact that she is protesting outside his ranch, the fact that this emblem of middle America is now attacking him; means she  IS very very bad trouble for Bush and is cronies.

          Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

          by Magorn on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:41:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's hard to believe (none)
            that no one on the dark side sees this coming.  

            But then, they've already done some very stupid things....

            The Axis of Evil runs somewhere between K Street and Constitution Avenue.

            by DanielMN on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:31:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Bring 'em on (none)
      as long as "they" aren't the poor grieving mothers of sons and daughters I sent into war under falsified pretenses
    •  That is their plan (none)
      I believe that is a large part of their plan and has been all along. But, will it continue to work? Here's hoping that somehow Cindy will do what all the rest of us combined have not been able to accomplish thus far which is put the fear of God in him/them.

      Hope has not failed until the last person gives up the fight.

      by gbreez on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 05:31:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  love the idea (3.98)
    that the threat to national security doesn't start until Thursday.  I didn't realize you could turn threats on and off like that.
    •  Just like (4.00)
      terror alerts!
      •  Friday News Dump (4.00)
        Of course they are waiting until Thursday, as a matter of fact I bet they arrest her around 6pm.... That way it will only make the Friday News Dump.... sigh
        •  According to today's NYT article, it's possible (none)
          that her removal on Thrusday would avoid a potentially damning encounter the following day. To wit:

          "Mr. Bush usually comes and goes from the ranch by helicopter, but he might have to drive by her on Friday, when he is scheduled to attend a Republican fund-raiser at a ranch just down the road from where Ms. Sheehan is camped out."

          Whatever happens, Cindy Sheehan's stand is brilliantly and bravely executed, but among the worst scenarios for Bushco would be the sight of the presidential motorcade gliding past as she stood by the side of that desolate and dusty road.  

          "When we celebrate Ignorance, and make that the National Standard of Excellence, we embarrass ourselves." --Frank Zappa

          by weary hobo on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:34:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  They've been doing it for years now (4.00)
      as per political convenience, no?

      Imho, Cindy & her allies in Crawford simply can't be allowed to tarnish the general illusion invested in so heavily by Bush & his heavyweight enablers -- & doled out in steaming loads to the community at large.

      I'm guessing they're expecting the media on Thursday for the big hoedown; the protest is a very basic inconvenience ('National security' my ass). The question remains as to how greater the eventual 'inconvenience' will be following an arrest. Are the media still in the mood to ignore dissent in favor of maintaining the wobbling facade?

    •  Is this? (none)
      Is this all about winning the weekend news cycle?  If she were arrested today, it would be gone by the weekend.  Arrest her Thursday, and the talking heads can have their party line completely ironed out by Friday evening.
    •  Hey... (none)
      ...it worked during the election.  

      Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

      by Barbara Morrill on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:28:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I caught that, too (none)
      Strangelovian.

      "There's no fighting in the war room!"

      "The American people will trust the Democratic Party to defend America when they believe that Democrats will defend other Democrats." Wesley Clark

      by The Termite on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:43:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Threat to National Security (4.00)
      My LTE:

      Accountability

      My children learned accountability early in life.  I allowed them to make age appropriate choices and allowed them to experience the consequences for their choices.  What a shame for our country that Barbara did not teach those same lessons to her son, George.

      I spent this weekend with Cindy Sheehan the mother of Casey who was killed in Sadr City in April 2004.  Cindy has a few simple questions for our president about the choices he made that caused her son to go to war.  So far, he has refused to meet with her or to answer those questions.  He has now determined that Cindy and her companions are a threat to national security and they will be arrested on Thursday.  Cindy and her companions are only mothers who are armed with Wet-wipes and juice-boxes.  They pose no threat to anyone.

      The President of the United States is our elected official and we pay his salary!  He owes us some accountability!  

      The Christian Right is neither Witness Every Day

      by TXsharon on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:50:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Love the letter... (none)
        my only critique is where you say they are not a threat to anyone, I would say that they are only a threat to the political health of an administration that has used blame-shifting, obfuscation and outright lies to take the nation to war based on radical ideology and/or corporate profit.

        Think that something like that would add puch & point out the true motivation behind Cindy's impending arrest...as if it isn't already blatantly obvious.

        Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it. -- Mark Twain

        by GTPinNJ on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:15:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  They couldn't fit it into Wednesday's Schedule n/t (none)

      ITSALONGWAYTOGO when you don't know where you're going; you don't where you're going when you're lost...

      by Omen on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:03:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So is there a special color for Cindy (none)
      on the threat level chart?

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

      by Lestatdelc on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:05:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good (4.00)
    I hope they are stupid enough to do it - it's like throwing gasoline on a fire, seems they can't resist.  What better way for her point to be made, albiet at no small discomfort to her?
    •  In the grand tradition of civil disobedience (4.00)
      Getting arrested will be the best thing that can happen for the cause.  It will make headline news, friday dump or no friday dump.  She already has national media attention.  It would be really DUMB for them to arrest her, and make her protest that much more visible.  Where are Bush's savvy advisors?  Is Karl Rove also on vacation?  

      Speak truth to power, it's a sin to tell a lie.

      by queen on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:33:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  There is no such thing as bad publicity (4.00)
    according to George Bush?

    I mean it is not as though that place is not a fortress with a crapload of security, oh no, that's not safe enough for our pansy-ass commander in chief.

  •  On second reading (4.00)
    Are they totally fucking nuts? They would rather arrest a large contingent of people than grant this woman a private meeting of who knows how many seconds?

    If we can't make hay of Bush arresting protesting mothers of KIA rather than having to speak to them one on one, we don't deserve any better than Idiot in Chief.

    •  It's sorta like Judy Miller (4.00)
      ...Libby or whomever her administration source is could release her from her promise and get her out of jail.

      Bush could meet with a grieving mother and not have to make he-man threats or arrest anybody.

      If she is arrested, a bigger crowd should show up the next day.

      Alex
      Choose Our President 2008

      •  Judith Miller does not want to be released (4.00)
        The problem, for Ms. Miller, is that she fears that her testimony will incriminate herself and her friends.  But if she takes the 5th, the prosecutor can then grant her use immunity and force her to testify, and her fellow journalists won't back her up.  But if she instead pretends she's protecting a source, for a story she had no intent of ever writing, she can play Saint Judy.

        Just watch: Scooter Libby will release her; she'll answer that the release was not freely given and is therefore invalid.

        •  I think Judy wants out (none)
          you watch. She's starting to dig the tunnel.

          Be a Carville, not a Colmes

          by seesdifferent on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:44:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Judy is up to her eyeballs (4.00)
            in the shit or she'd be out of jail already. Hopefully she gets out by cutting a deal with Fitzgerald and not the other side.

            Only you can prevent dictatorships. ePluribus Media is accepting donations. Thanks.

            by Todd Johnston on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:54:40 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Best career move ever (none)
            Really, if she is ambitious, her ambition may be providing her comfort to offset the hassle of being in jail for six months.

            Going to jail to protect a source? Leakers would trust her a lot more than they would the folks at Time.

            And then there are the book deals, and maybe even a movie of the week.

            76% of dKos readers think I'm a secret wing-nut operative!

            by Gustavo on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:14:32 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  This should be viewed as an opportunity (4.00)
      to dramatize what America under the Busheviks has become.

      Bush the AWOL jailing the mother of a KIA in the name of national security!

      Bush the hider of the dead from his own war now starts in on the surviving kin of these dead.

      Bush the metaphorical ghoul now  trying his hand at vampir(y?)

      Really, this is rich......

      It's the Dishonesty, Stupid!

      by dabize on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 09:53:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Busheviks" - that's a great one! (none)
        Thanks - plus I love that sig line, too...

        "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." --Thomas Jefferson

        by frisco on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:39:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  good one.... (none)
          but how about Bushitviks instead of Busheviks
          •  How about bushpoopooviks? (4.00)
            IMO, these contemptuous nicknames make us look childish.  "Bush Administration" does it for me.

            "A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both." --President Eisenhower

            by rhubarb on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:50:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ordinarily I'd agree with you (4.00)
              about nicknames for Bush henchmen and supporters.

              But I like "Busheviks" because it remind me of how similar Bush's tactics are to those of avowed "Communists". Also, Bush et. al resemble the Soviets more colsely than they do any other group of totalitarians from the 20th Century - and this is ironic, to say the least.

              It's the Dishonesty, Stupid!

              by dabize on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:06:32 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Bolshevik is scary accurate... (none)
                ...more accurate than you might realize. Lenin adopted that name when he LOST a vote in the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party in 1903, to press a FALSE claim that his faction represented the will of the majority of the party's members. In fact, "Bolshevik" simply means "majority." (source)

                Now, who else falsely claims to represent the will of the people? Any guesses....?

                "Salvation is by way of the truth, not by way of the fatherland" -- Chaadaev

                by sagesource on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:56:53 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  rhubarb wasn't (none)
                taking issue with "Busheviks." Note the comment to which she was replying.
              •  not similar to bolsheviks at all... (none)
                dabize,

                The bolsheviks (legitimate revolutionaries) rose up to defend the oppressed masses and overthrow a tyrannical monarchy (the czar).  They have nothing to do with the eventual despotic regime that eventually arose under Stalin (after he banished Trotsky and later had him killed; you know, Trotsky? the true revolutionary?).

                Anyway, if we're comparing Bush43 to totalitarian regimes of the 20th century, I think it's pretty damn evident that the National Socialist Party and its Third Reich is MUCH more similar to the current Bush regime than the Soviet Union ever was.

                Their propaganda, their tactics, their secret arrests, their oppression of dissent... all straight out of the nazi handbook.

                Just check this out, if you haven't already:

                "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

                Sound eerily familiar? This was pronounced by Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials.

                Nazis, people, these guys are Nazis.  Not commies.

                •  The Soviets weren't Commies, not really (none)
                  And Bush is closer to a Brezhnev than he is to Hitler.

                  Check out the nomenklatura, the corruption, the systematic looting of the mechanisms of state, and the pervasive hypocrisy.

                  No need to break Godwin's Law for Bush - he's our Leonid.

                  It's the Dishonesty, Stupid!

                  by dabize on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 05:03:13 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  And thanks to the heads-up... (none)
      ...maybe a huge contingent of people?  Although I personally think it would be much more visually effective if it's Cindy alone being arrested as a "threat".  Effective in the sense that it would make Bush look like an even bigger an ass...which isn't easy.  ;-)

      Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

      by Barbara Morrill on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:18:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Now if the press had any guts (none)
      as part of their report on Thursday or Friday they would film an empty patch of ground with the voiceover

      This is the spot where, until her arrest four hours ago, Cindy Sheehan was holding a lone vigil, waiting for a private meeting with President Bush

      and then cut to an interview with Cindy in jail.

      I have to give it to Repubcorp™, though. They're consistent in the way they fight the Hydra. They kill a few insurgents in Iraq and ten more spring up. They arrest Cindy and dozens more Cindys will spring up.

      Eventually we'll all be behind bars. Maybe that's what they want anyway.

    •  Hard to believe... (4.00)
      I find it hard to believe that even this wing-nuttiest of administrations would really carry this threat through.  Certainly the puppetmaster, when not busy outing CIA operatives, has enough sense to see what a PR disaster this would be.

      I think it's either:
      a) a bluff scare-tactic intended to try to move Cindy quietly out of the picture; or
      b) a Rovian special dirty trick intended to get her supporters all riled up, making claims that can't be substantiated and then inviting Cindy in out of the heat for a typically-cynical BushCo™ meeting on Thursday afternoon.  (i.e., to try to humiliate the opponent into silence at the same time as offering a falsely-gallant olive branch).

      I believe it's the latter.  I don't believe they would arrest her - that's just too stooopid, even for this preznit-wit.

      "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." --Thomas Jefferson

      by frisco on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:37:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Intresting (none)
        theory, if nothing else. I don't think Bush would risk it though. She has a pretty good bullsh*t detector.

        Can anyone tell me why my American flag was made in China?

        by Skid on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:09:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Not unless they can discredit her first (none)
        I can't imagine they would be stupid enough to arrest her without discrediting her first.  How can they discredit her?

        <tin foil hat>Wingnut moles join the protest and turn it violent.  The whole protest is discredited</tin foil hat>

        Tin foil hatty, but plausible and doable.   I'm sure Turd Blossom can come up with a hundred other ways to discredit someone.

        "...give no quarter; fear no shadows; and make the mountains tremble." Dr. William F. Schulz

        by Shaniriver on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:10:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I've seen it happen! (none)
          A conservative counter protestor got herself arrested in Shrevesport La. during a protest rally of Bush's 30 bulshit town halls in 30 days.

          She did it to get the press to headline of the arrest at a demonstration.

          "It's about the accountability, stupid." Thomas Davis 2005.

          by Tomtech on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:15:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Not tinfoil (none)
          It's not tinfoil. The historical record shows that this technique had been used before, and used effectively. There's a term for the type of "moles" you describe: agent provocateur.

          I have spoken with some very experienced folks who tell me that such techniques were used during the Vietnam war to radicalize the anti-war movement and polarize public opinion. As public attention became focused on arguments about the tactics of the anti-war movement, the war itself got less attention. If the nation had not become polarized about the anti-war movement, there might have been a much earlier consolidation of public opinion aimed at pressuring Nixon for an exit strategy.

          I used to live in the United States of America. Now I live in a homeland.

          by homeland observer on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:07:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  now we know... (4.00)
    According to the Bush administration... what constitutes a threat to national security?

    Letting Osama escape? No...

    Outing a CIA operative? No....

    Destabilizing the Middle East? No...

    Potentially interfering with a GOP fundraiser? Yes!

  •  it's a matter of priorities (4.00)
    Does this mean the Bush would rather threaten national security than to talk to a mother who has lost her son?

    Rrrrrringgg... Time to change the government.

    by Carl Nyberg on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 09:49:32 AM PDT

    •  National Threat to Security? (4.00)
      BUSH is a national threat to our security. You know, Mr. Bring it on? What an ass. People this is now a police state. Arrest her on what evidence? She has done nothing but sacrifice her son for this asshole's greed! Some Noble cause huh?

      The more understanding one posesses, the less there is to say and the more there is to do.

      by Alohaleezy on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:00:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well it certainly means (3.66)
      A mother whose son has given his life in service is more of a threat than a gay prostitute who only lies about having served in the military (unless you count doinking generals as "service").

      This is the way democracy ends Not with a bomb But with a gavel -Max Baucus

      by emptywheel on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:19:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Bush (4.00)
    is afraid to death of even talking to her. She is only there because he won't talk to her.

    What a weak, pathetic, disgusting excuse for a man.

    "I didn't dig it out, it was given to me... they gave me the name and I used it." - Novak, Newsday, 7/22/03

    by thirdparty on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 09:50:12 AM PDT

    •  he's a little little man n/t (none)
    •  Bush doesn't want to meet with her (none)
      because he knows that in his heart of hearts he has only contempt for her.  contempt because she would be directly confronting the lie he is perpetuating, the lie that he is, and the horrible situation for which he is responsible.  bush confronts everything--the media, congress, policy, admin, and even himself--on his terms and only in such a way that reinforces his ego inflated fantasy world.    

      Sheehan, however, has turned the tables, putting bush on the defensive.  And he hates it, hates that this seemingly insignificant person is outing him for the pathetic fuck that he truly is.  Oh he can take out tyrants, oh he can talk the bring-em-on big talk about Osama, but can he confront this woman armed with the truth?  Fucking coward.  

      If they meet, Bush will not be able to hide his contempt when she questions him.  We will see the same exasperated contemptuous scowling mean angry fuck that we saw in the first debate with kerry.  I hope the press will be there so we can witness it.

      Cindy, you are truly an American heroine and i applaud your courage and perseverance, which is an inspiration to us all!!!!      

  •  Ever since this started (4.00)
    I have been thinking about the daily demonstrations that took place at the South African embassy.  Famous people would come and get arrested so it made the news often.  They really had an impact and the world changed (of course it was only one factor).  Cindy is in this for the long haul.  She has the undeniable moral high ground, just as those embassy protesters did.  
  •  so typical (none)
    Instead of arresting her now, they plan to wait until the last possible moment that's convenient for them, so that Cindy can spend a few more days in the 110-degree heat.

    "This...this is the fault of that Clinton Penis! And that powermongering wife of his!"

    by CaptUnderpants on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 09:50:59 AM PDT

    •  exactly, doing everything possible to intimidate (none)
      any future dissenters.

      evil fucking cowards the lot of em

      Do it GREEN, know what I mean?

      by SonofFunk on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:27:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So - does the Sheriff want to go to jail himself? (none)
        Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

        =

        I'd say that if Cindy Sheehan is arrested, Bush is digging his own grave.

        "I don't do quagmires, and my boss doesn't do nuance."

        by SteinL on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:59:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Or else we are inside Juan Cole's Joke for today: (none)
          CONSTITUTION

          They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it's worked for over 200 years and we're not using it anymore.

          "I don't do quagmires, and my boss doesn't do nuance."

          by SteinL on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:02:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Time to GET BUSY People! (4.00)
    Right - it's up to us to put pressure on the news & media outlets who've been reporting on this to tell this story.  How can someone not be a security threat now - but then suddenly become one just because of a fundraiser or a visit from a couple of Admin types?

    CNN and NBC have done stories on this - we should at least be alerting them to this and demand that they ask the tough questions, and confirm that this is what's going to be happening on Thursday.

    This cannot be allowed to stand folks.  Instead of saying "this is why I hate them so much" we should be DOING SOMETHING TO STOP THIS SHIT.

  •  He already killed her son based on his lies (4.00)
    How is jail going to be worse? This will be a public relations nightmare if he does it!

    No one with any reasonable sense of sanity supports his Imperialist Agenda anymore. If he arrests her his popularity will fall into the 30's.

    Anyone who is in Crawford should look into the sky for circling buzzards getting ready to devour the foul smelling road kill that is this administration.

    With a big ol' lie And a flag and a pie And a mom and a bible Most folks are just liable To buy any line Any place, any time ~ FZ

    by f furney on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 09:53:12 AM PDT

  •  Who's the bigger threat to national security? (none)
    Cindy Sheehan, or

    Bush, Incompetenza Rice, and Ronald Dumbsfeld?

    In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

    by Paul in Berkeley on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 09:55:14 AM PDT

  •  what do we do? (none)
    if the media has any word that Cindy S. and company will be arrested on Thursday, they'll be there. of course, if it turns out not to be true, the media could turn on the cause, say to heck with the August heat, and leave. So what d'yall think? Just wait and see?
  •  Let's Face It (3.66)
    When it comes to manliness, Bush is still waiting to get his first period.
  •  I might be out of the loop but... (4.00)
    on what grounds can she be arrested? What is she doing that's perceived as a threat to national security?

    -fink

  •  Threat to National Security? (4.00)
    That's a clear abuse of power. Appalling. Bush truly is an unfeeling monster.

    Get ready for it Bush. If you arrest this woman, we're going to bring Hell down around your shoulders.

    Bush is human waste.

    Buy Democracy Bonds or Justice sleeps with the fishes.

    by Don Quixotic on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:06:38 AM PDT

  •  Don't Believe this (none)
    I can't believe they will arrest her. For what reason?? It would be really bad for Bush if they did arrest her.
    •  The Dead Zone (4.00)
      Remember that scene in the Dead Zone when Martin Sheen grabs the little boy to use as a human shield and the photographer gets it in frame and it ends up on the cover of Time, destroying Sheen's run at the presidency?

      It's like that. Something is coming. And it's coming soon. The poll numbers are dropping. Flop sweat is forming. The mistakes are becoming more obvious and less correctible. And Bush's impressive run of luck is going to fail. And it will literally be all over in a couple of weeks from that moment. An episode that even the greenest political type would know shouldn't have happened. Perhaps Sheehan will tell Bush what she thinks of him and he'll reply, and be recorded, telling her something like "Your son was worthless. So are you. Now get out of here before I have you shot."

      It'll be a massive, unrecoverable error. Like dragging a brillo pad across a dvd. And it'll go down as one of the biggest political goof ups in history.

      I really do think that's what's coming. So let's all keep the pressure up. And wait. No one throws a seven every time.

    •  Hell, the Patriot Act is so vague... (none)
      I'm sure they could and would try using something like Sec. 411 from the Patriot Act indicates, a modification of 8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(3):


      (F) by amending clause (iv) (as redesignated by subparagraph (B)) to read as follows:
      `(iv) ENGAGE IN TERRORIST ACTIVITY DEFINED- As used in this chapter, the term `engage in terrorist activity' means, in an individual capacity or as a member of an organization--
      ...
      `(II) to prepare or plan a terrorist activity;
      `(III) to gather information on potential targets for terrorist activity;

      How is vague is that?  How is gathering or preparing framed?  It's not, as far as I can tell.

      Although the masters make the rules / For the wise men and the fools / I got nothing, Ma, to live up to. (Dylan)

      by teedz on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:43:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Stephen Hadley's Threat Assessment Matrix (4.00)
    "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the US"-No threat

    "Cindy Sheehan Determined to Embarass the President"-Code Red

    Bush will not relent to meet Sheehan.  In his world it would be viewed as weakness to consider the wishes of one beneath his station.

    Sell your cleverness; buy bewilderment.

    by lapin on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:07:52 AM PDT

  •  What if she's replaced by thousands more? (4.00)
    What if locking up Cindy causes thousands of 'Free Cindy' protesters to show up at Bush's ranch?

    What if after they are taken away, thousands more show up.

    Let them go down this path.

    I don't live in Texas, but if I did, I'd already be in my car and headed that direction.

    Is anyone working on building some momentum on all of this?

    http://www.democratpassions.com

    by worker on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:07:53 AM PDT

  •  THOM HARTMANN said (none)
    He will try to get Cindy back on the line, live

    Thomhartmann.com live stream, click one of the first two links from Whiterosesociety

  •  strategy (4.00)
    I wonder if it wouldn't be best to reduce the number of support people, several hours before arrest time, to a minimum. Just a thought, and it isn't my party. And forgive my stereotyping. But arresting, lets say, Cindy and two other women, perhaps some clergy, as a threat to national security, is pretty damned ridiculous. Arresting 15-20 hostile men and women might come closer to validating the national security concept.  

    They are playing right into Cindy's hands with this. Take max advantage.

    Be a Carville, not a Colmes

    by seesdifferent on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:09:10 AM PDT

  •  I diaried on ways to help Cindy earlier today (none)
    But with my usual great timing, it was just in time to be eclipsed by this bombshell. Still, for a collection of links and locations to go to if you want to support Cindy but aren't in the area, check out http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/8/124756/9775
  •  And so now these assholes (4.00)
    are claiming that they are physically scared of Cindy Sheehan?  That she represents some sort of physical threat to Bush?  No doubt, she could probably kick his ass, but they have scores and scores of SS officers at that location.

    Ms. Sheehan, don't back down.  Let them try.  We'll do all we can to make sure that the scene is captured and replayed nationally so that all Americans and the international community can see the "national security threat" for themselves.

    I've made it very clear, he was not involved, that there's no truth to the suggestion that he was.-McClellan, 2003

    by GN1927 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:10:04 AM PDT

  •  It would really help... (4.00)
    if some high profile public figure like Jessie Jackson or Michael Moore or Paul Hackett or Barbara Boxer were to go down there are join the protest and get arrested along with Cindy.

    1) The arrest could not be as easily sustained and they would have to be released (and therefore free to resume Cindy's goal)

    2) The more people involved with "name-recognition", the more media would be forced to cover it - thereby highlighting the anti-democracy anti-freedom of this Bush administration.

    The only way out of this mess is MASS CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE.

    Ghandi & Martin L. King both showed that it works.

    •  God, not Michael Moore! (none)
      Jesse Jackson? Sure. But not Michael Moore. I like some of the stuff Moore's done, and I think he's got the right general aim, but his work is often too much about him, and sometimes in a pretty obnoxious way.

      Someone more polished.

    •  Jesse Jackson? (none)
      But Cindy's not a young, black boy who's been shot/beaten by local police.  </quasi-snark>

      It would be great to get someone visible and liberal leaning to highlight this.  Something tells me that Brad and Angelina could have sex right there in Craweford as protest and the media wouldn't cover the why, they'd cover how they're doing it wrong.

      •  I Hope You're Confusing Rev. Jesse Jackson (none)
        with Al Sharpton.

        In either case, you should learn a little more about Rev. jackson.

        This is CLASS WAR, and the other side is winning.

        by Mr X on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:09:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  One in the same (4.00)
          In my mind, they're both opportunist and aren't helping my community at all.  I noticed that Jackson managed to make it here to LA when that 13 yr. old kid was killed by the cops, but what is he doing to help change any of the ills going on in the black community?  As a black person raised on a diet of Jackson, I don't think I need to learn more about him, I know too much about his type already.
    •  I disagree completely (4.00)
      I think it's important that it remain about a Gold Star Mother versus Bush.  Every politician and public figure is polarizing to some degree...I think it's better to force the GOP'ers to attack a mom and show their true colors...

      Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

      by Barbara Morrill on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:36:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Missing the point ... (none)

        It will be about the GOld Star Mother regardless.

        But, as we know, the media can ignore a relatively obscure figure like Cindy Sheehan (yes, I know she is a houshold & beloved figure for activists .. but she is unknown to John Q. Public from Idaho).

        They cannot ignore the issue and the subject is high-profile people support her and get arrested with her.

        Then, it becomes unignorable and pressure will mount to release all the protesters and drop the charges.   Without this, it is conceivable that Sheehan pays a heavy personal price and the media just disappears.

        How often have we seen the media treat a Bush scandal as a 1 day story and then .... nothing .....  ( i.e., Downing Street, etc. )

        The greater the body count, the harder it is for them to win.   No one will lose sight of the fact that this is about a Gold Star Mother's search for the truth -- but additionally, it is about more than just 1 life.  This is about the orchestrated, pre-meditated murder of thousands of innocent people based on lies.

        The cause must go on ...
        Join & be a part of Cindy's civil disobedience.

        This is how change happens...

        •  They should relay... (none)
          ...one public figure at a time, not all at once. So that one is always there if the police move in, but she's the central presence and is not overshadowed.

          "Salvation is by way of the truth, not by way of the fatherland" -- Chaadaev

          by sagesource on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:45:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  No, I'm not missing the point (4.00)
          I'm disagreeing...there is a difference.  Any political figure (Kerry, Boxer, etc.) or public figure (Jesse Jackson, Michael Moore, etc.) would distract from what this is about...and any and all of them carry varying degrees of political baggage.  This has become a national story without a "big name" and adding one now would be a mistake, IMO.  Again I maintain that allowing Bush and the GOP to attack one mom will highlight what assholes they truly are...bring in <insert name> and you have something to be used to deflect the argument...a GOP speciality.  

          Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

          by Barbara Morrill on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:21:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The point ... (none)

            I do not want to see Cindy Sheehan pay a heavy personal price here ... while the Bush-friendly media just dismiss the issue away.

            That would be ineffective.

            This is Cindy's show no matter what.

            But the point here is, there is no real "show" at all here unless it gets large amounts of media coverage.

            Cindy Sheehan HERSELF has asked that more people help her and join the effort.

            "We need more people here...it would be nice for as many people to come whenever they can come.  To show them that, truly 61% of the American people want this war over and believe it was a mistake to begin with."
              -Cindy Sheehan

            So, yes - we need a huge gathering.
            That is how civil disobedience works.

            Martin L. King did not get on a bus with 10 people - he wanted everybody and so does Cindy.

            That's the way that Bush, etc. will be forced to back down ...

            1 person can always be ignored or mistreated or both.   THis is the beginning of a movement - if we play our cards correctly!

            •  Now let me say... (none)
              ...you missed my point completely.  

              Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

              by Barbara Morrill on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 02:11:31 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  You exhibit zero media savvy ... (none)
              for a potential moment like this one. You can argue all you like but you sound more and more like someone brought up on a diet of MTV and celebrity moments.

              Historical moments that this evokes have always been about the lone brave "nobody" making a stand and bringing down a powerful institution or group on their own.

              Think Rosa Parks here.

              If you can't grasp this ... well ... stay out of PR. It's not a natural fit for your talents.

              "You don't lead by pointing and telling people some place to go. You lead by going to that place and making a case." - Ken Kesey

              by Glinda on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 05:42:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Your point makes a lot of sense (none)
            If the focus is War Victims as represented by Cindy and other mothers, wives, fathers, husbands. There is less to spin by the rightwing MSM and the Cheney-Rove slime machine.
        •  What it will be about, (none)
          unfortunately, is what the media choose to make it about, regardless of what we do to try to influence their coverage.

          Here in my reddish-purple state, I know people who don't take kindly to "Hollywood types." This needs to be about Cindy or we lose important cross-party and cross-cultural support that would otherwise go without question.

          This is a bi-partisan concern. Let's not make it a partisan one. Or a circus easily dismissed.

        •  Wrong... (none)
          It will be about the Gold Star Mother regardless.

          No it won't. Not if the Fright-WingTM and the SCLM have anything to do with it, and certainly not if opportunists like Jackson and Sharpton, etc. join in because the cameras are rolling.

          Have you been asleep for the past 5 years?

          It is the only game they play, their entire political doctrine is ad homniem and misdirection... writ large.

          cheers,

          Mitch Gore

          Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

          by Lestatdelc on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:46:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Oh! Please dear God! No! (none)
        Please, please ... no celebrities, no! None! Zip! Zero!

        Please don't give those self-promoting narcissists any ideas. It may grab the People Mag ADD crowd. But any thinking person open to political persuasion will immediately turn off the TV and their attention.

        No celebs ... No! No! No!  Not even one!

        "You don't lead by pointing and telling people some place to go. You lead by going to that place and making a case." - Ken Kesey

        by Glinda on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 05:34:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Absolutely Not! (4.00)
      This is Cindy's show.

      Every headline and story associated with this must have no option other than to talk about a mother who lost her son in Iraq.

      Another circus is not what we need.

      This is CLASS WAR, and the other side is winning.

      by Mr X on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:07:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree 100% (none)
        we don't need celebrities, Hollywood style or otherwise.

        It's about the moms. Jesus Christ, what is more American than that?

        •  We want pictures of CINDY (4.00)
          .... not Susan Sarandon. (Sorry, Sue.)

          "Nature favors the apt, not the strong or the weak." Louis Sullivan

          by Lilibeth on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:56:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You don't get it! (none)

          I do not want to see Cindy Sheehan pay a heavy personal price here ... while the Bush-friendly media just dismiss the issue away.

          That would be ineffective.

          This is Cindy's show no matter what.

          But the point here is, there is no real "show" at all here unless it gets large amounts of media coverage.

          Cindy Sheehan HERSELF has asked that more people help her and join the effort.

          "We need more people here...it would be nice for as many people to come whenever they can come.  To show them that, truly 61% of the American people want this war over and believe it was a mistake to begin with."
            -Cindy Sheehan

          So, yes - we need a huge gathering.
          That is how civil disobedience works.

          Martin L. King did not get on a bus with 10 people - he wanted everybody and so does Cindy.

          That's the way that Bush, etc. will be forced to back down ...

          1 person can always be ignored or mistreated or both.   THis is the beginning of a movement - if we play our cards correctly!

          •  Agreed (none)
            THE LOW ROAD
            by Marge Piercy

            What can they do
            to you? Whatever they want.
            They can set you up, they can
            bust you, they can break
            your fingers, they can
            burn your brain with electricity,
            blur you with drugs till you
            can t walk, can't remember, they can
            take your child, wall up
            your lover. They can do anything
            you can't blame them
            from doing. How can you stop
            them? Alone, you can fight,
            you can refuse, you can
            take what revenge you can
            but they roll over you.

            But two people fighting
            back to back can cut through
            a mob, a snake-dancing file
            can break a cordon, an army
            can meet an army.

            Two people can keep each other
            sane, can give support, conviction,
            love, massage, hope, sex.
            Three people are a delegation,
            a committee, a wedge. With four
            you can play bridge and start
            an organisation. With six
            you can rent a whole house,
            eat pie for dinner with no
            seconds, and hold a fund raising party.
            A dozen make a demonstration.
            A hundred fill a hall.
            A thousand have solidarity and your own newsletter;
            ten thousand, power and your own paper;
            a hundred thousand, your own media;
            ten million, your own country.

            It goes on one at a time,
            it starts when you care
            to act, it starts when you do
            it again after they said no,
            it starts when you say We
            and know who you mean, and each
            day you mean one more.

      •  The problem .. (none)

        I do not want to see Cindy Sheehan pay a heavy personal price here ... while the Bush-friendly media just dismiss the issue away.

        That would be ineffective.

        This is Cindy's show no matter what.

        But the point here is, there is no real "show" at all here unless it gets large amounts of media coverage.

        Cindy Sheehan HERSELF has asked that more people help her and join the effort.

        "We need more people here...it would be nice for as many people to come whenever they can come.  To show them that, truly 61% of the American people want this war over and believe it was a mistake to begin with."
          -Cindy Sheehan

        So, yes - we need a huge gathering.
        That is how civil disobedience works.

        Martin L. King did not get on a bus with 10 people - he wanted everybody and so does Cindy.

        That's the way that Bush, etc. will be forced to back down ...

        1 person can always be ignored or mistreated or both.   THis is the beginning of a movement - if we play our cards correctly!

        •  The Right Way to Bring in More People (4.00)
          is to let Cindy get arrested first.

          Believe me, a large and growing crowd outside the Chimp ranch will be played-up to appear as a real threat to the pResident. A large and growing crowd outside Cindy's jail cell will not.

          There is ample time and opportunity for mass demonstrations. Right now, we have something very powerful - a mother who lost her son - which is very hard to spin into a negative. If Cindy is arrested, it will be very good press for our side.

          And regarding "I do not want to see Cindy Sheehan pay a heavy personal price here ... ", she's already lost her son. I don't think she gives a rat's ass about getting arrested.

          This is CLASS WAR, and the other side is winning.

          by Mr X on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:55:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  keep it non-partisan (none)
      hackett would be fine, as an iraq war vet, but other partisan figures should let this be cindy's show.  it's better if it's veterans and families of the war against bush than a predictable democrat v. republican thing.

      and as far as getting a big crowd out there thursday, that's not a bad idea, but they should protest in a well-separated location, such as at the other ranch where the fundraiser is being held.  

      if they're really planning to arrest cindy as a dire threat to the president's approval numbers, we should make them do that openly.  if she's suddenly surrounded by a crowd we give them the excuse of saying, "look one mom and a couple supporters is one thing, but now this has gotten out of hand."

      of course, if they do arrest her for sitting in her little tent, then we should swarm the jail, and the more the merrier.

      we'd better decide now if we are going to be fearless men or scared boys.
      — e.d. nixon, montgomery improvement association

      by zeke L on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:14:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  adsf (none)
      Where are our Noble Democratic Elected leaders at?

      This is the perfect Opportunity for Democrats to really show that they actually care about the Soldiers and Families of those Serving in Iraq.....Even if it is some unknown Democrat there should be atleast One Democratic Representative out there Insisting President Bush Meet with this Woman.....it is shameful that there isn't...

      Are they Barred from this type of thing?

  •  has Bush (4.00)
    been to one soldier's funeral yet?
    •  Nope (none)
      There was a diary in December about John Kerry attending the funerals of soldiers from Massachusetts. Sigh...if only November 2 had turned out differently. Say what you will about Kerry as a politician, but he is a gentleman.

      "You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." -Malcolm X

      by PsiFighter37 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:22:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I miss Nixon, well not really, but (4.00)
    Even Richard Nixon had the guts to speak with anti-war protester in 1970 when he went out at night to the Lincoln Memorial during the Viet Nam war protests. That I would see Nixon as an example of courage speaks volumes about the current resident of the White House.

    Flags don't kill people, governments do.
    Take back the flag, take back the government.

    by BOHICA on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:11:32 AM PDT

    •  I agree with you totally (4.00)
      In spite of everything, Nixon was raised to have some class.

      OTOH, as he was leaving the Lincoln Memorial, a bearded guy ran up to his limo and flipped him off.  Nixon returned the gesture and then had himself a good laugh, saying, "That poor sonofabitch.  He'll spend the rest of his life telling people that the President of the United States gave him the finger--and nobody will believe him!"

      Okay Kossacks, which one of you did it?  

      "A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both." --President Eisenhower

      by rhubarb on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:10:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Are there any photos? (none)
      A comparison shot of Nixon among the hippies and Shrub cowering somewhere would make a powerful poster.

      "Salvation is by way of the truth, not by way of the fatherland" -- Chaadaev

      by sagesource on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:42:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Even Nixon didn't go this far (none)
      He seriously considered arresting Kerry and the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, but he didn't.
      And that's precisely the message I'd like to see Kerry itterate.

      If anyone should be there by her side, it should be John Kerry, media spin be damned. Although he disagrees with her stance that the troops should be pulled out immediately he should defend her right to protest peacefully.

      He should go down there and ask the president when the freedom of speech became a threat to national security. Then he should dare the chimp to arrest him too.

      If none of our beloved Dems can take a stand against the abuse of a citizen's fundamental constitutional right, then none of them is worth my vote. Period.

  •  The battle of all mothers (4.00)
    Sheehan getting arrested is only the beginning.

    The best-to-be-hoped-for scenario is that suddenly all the mothers of the children thrown to the Iraquagmire will start showing up at Crawford, one at a time. Or at Pennsylvania Avenue, one at a time. Or at Republican fundraisers, one at a time.

    Remember the 1980s with Pinochet? Back then it was called Dancing with the Missing.

    Bush may be a mother in one regard, but in the way that counts, he's not even close. He's coming up against a bunch of women who raised their children (no nannies), sometimes with limited financial resources (no trustfunds). It's like trying to pick up a ball of wasps. Bush doesn't have a prayer.

    And, to make it worse, this is a matter of emotional human contact. Bush always does worst at those. He won't ring true, and these woman will see right through it. And then they'll start doing interviews. What are you going to do when it's Tucker Carlson on one side, a mother of a dead 19-year-old on the other side and the first words out of the mother's mouth are something like "My son died fighting the war you're so gung-ho for Mr. Carlson. I brought some enlistment papers with me in my purse. You either sign up, right now, or you shut up and stop disrespecting my son's memory."

    If one of the mothers gets to Bush, I hope she insists that he draft the twins.

  •  GET OFF OUR ASSES FOLKS (4.00)
    So let's not mush this around and glad-hand it, let's get busy.

    1.  Who are attorneys in "KOS" world?  We need constitutional legal minds here, get to Crawford or get it together.

    2.  Criminal attorneys perhaps, we need to get bail ready to be set if this happens.

    3.  KOSSACKS time to dig into your pockets for money...they will need it.

    4.  HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN GET THEIR ASSES TO CRAWFORD BY EARLY THURSDAY A.M. AND STAND ARM-IN-ARM WITH CINDY?!?!?!  To arrest a handful while newsworthy...well a couple of hundred, they'll need BUSES and that'll look great coming across the wires...PRESIDENT BUSH has parents'of KIA soldiers ARRESTED because they want answers?!?!  

    5.  We need to keep a link open with Cindy and coordinate.

    6.  MEDIA folks, get on it NOW...look what we helped to get going on Saturday!!!!  

    7.  SENATORS/CONGRESSMEN NOW...we need to PLEAD with Barbara Boxer and Feinstein...this is their person, they MUST defend her.

    I'm out for today, but will be back tonite and jump into the web as needed.  I don't know that I can get there...to many logistics on my end here.

    ORGANIZE FOLKS!!!!  PLEASE....

    •  John Conyers (4.00)
      would be the most logical person if we were going to urge a public figure to join Cindy.  She testified at his hearing / forum in June.

      Congresswoman Lee maybe - since she's gathering co-sponsors to her resolution / request for documents re the downing street minutes etc.

      Boxer would be great but I think the above members of congress have a more direct connection.

      BTW - is anyone else finding it ironic that Bush is allowing a leaker to remain at his side - but is arresting this brave and grieving mother?

    •  I think......... (none)
      I think the Patriot Act prohibits people who are arrested as a national security threat from having access to a lawyer. Has anyone else heard that?
    •  Stand with Cindy -- AT HOME (4.00)
      DO NOT get in your car and head for Crawford, TX. Cindy has not asked for this, and she knows what she's doing. It is very important to keep the crowd small and avoid the possiblity of "plants" who could deliberately behave in a provocative way.

      Stand with Cindy AT HOME. Organize a vigil or some other local event. Keep it legal, keep it civil. Get local media coverage if you can. Make people aware that what Cindy is doing is not a threat in any way to the security of the President or the nation.

      I used to live in the United States of America. Now I live in a homeland.

      by homeland observer on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:23:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  She HAS asked for people to join her. (none)
        From Rene in Ohio, a transcription of Cindy on Air America with Laura Flanders:

        "We need more people here...we're getting a lot of press attention and it would be nice for as many people to come whenever they can come. To show them that, truly, 61% of American people want this war over and believe it was a mistake to begin with. So lets show them that. There's also vigils and protests and demonstrations being organized around the country. People should go to the Progressive Democrats of America site, or After Downing Street. Daily Kos is posting a lot of events that are happening and ways to support us."

        If you can't be there, join her from home. But Cindy asked for people to join her.

        Oh well, I wasn't using that civil liberty anyway.

        by think2004 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:54:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That was BEFORE this threat (none)
          That was BEFORE this threat was made. Everyone really needs to take a deep breath and think this through.

          When you have a large crowd of people who do not know each other, all it takes is one mole -- otherwise known as an agent provocateur -- to perform an illegal act that will legitimize harsh "crowd control" techniques. It is difficult to keep a large group completely non-violent in the face of such techniques. (If you have not had the personal experience of being gassed and then approached by someone in uniform holding a club, do not claim to know how you will react.) This is why large-scale events (such as the upcoming September march) are carefully planned and include participation by individuals with training and experience in non-violence.

          The timing of this "threat" - i.e. the day after Cindy suggested on the air that more people come to Crawford - makes me very uneasy. I think it would be far better for people to organize support vigils in their home towns and wait for this "threat" to play itself out.

          If some authority is determined to arrest Cindy, a large crowd will not keep that from happening. It could provide greater grounds for charging and holding her.

          I used to live in the United States of America. Now I live in a homeland.

          by homeland observer on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 02:24:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Well (4.00)
    Isn't this just like the racist and imperialist regimes that imprisoned Dr King and Mahatma Gandhi for peacufully protesting institutionalized violence and oppression? Cindy will be in great company if the current war-mongering theo-fascist regime imprisons her for protesting from a ditch miles away from the Fuhrer's mansion.
  •  Good, arrest her (none)
    get a bunch of people out there sitting peacefully.  Do not resist arrest.  Just sit there.

    It worked in the 60s.

    Get up on your SoapBlox - The NEW blog framework

    by pacified on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:13:32 AM PDT

  •  Whom does this administration put in jail? (4.00)
    A journalist and a mother.

    A blogger will be next. Then an aid worker.
    Then the rest of us.

  •  What dept will the arresting officers be from? (none)
    I'm wondering if it will be the County, State or Federal Police (Federal Police, huh?) who arrest them.  Or maybe just guys dressed in black, pretending to be secret service, nothing happend when they used them in Colorado, why not try to push it a little farther this time.

    http://eastexasdemocrats.blogspot.com/

    by edalex on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:15:48 AM PDT

  •  If we as a community have any balls... (4.00)
    ...it's time we all climbed into our cars, grabbed a sleeping bag, and sat by Cindy's side.

    They can't arrest thousands. We need to get thousands out there.

    •  NO! (4.00)
      Then it would appear as a threat!

      The whole beauty of this is that Cindy is obviously not a threat.

      They certainly can arrest thousands, BTW.

      This is CLASS WAR, and the other side is winning.

      by Mr X on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:20:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i disagree, if there ever was a time to get off (none)
        asses and do something, it's now.  

        The Bill of Rights, not the Ten Commandments, should be on our buildings

        by chinkoPelinke on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:31:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Timing is all (none)
          And I think you're wrong about it. Hundreds or thousands of anti-war protesters camped out a mile from Bush's "ranch" could perhaps justifiably be called a national security threat (in bizarro-world, where sadly, we live, it's true, I'm afraid). Save the big stuff until after any arrests. That's when it'll have the desired rather than a dissipated or unintended effect.

          Rather than declaring ourselves what Cindy does or doesn't need from us, why don't we wait to hear from Cindy & co. themselves?

      •  You get this and BarbinMD gets this ... (none)
        as do a few others. Why is this so hard for so many other Kossacks to understand?

        This is a "Rosa Parks" moment.

        This isn't an RNC 2004 in NYC moment.

        Keep the group with Cindy small, eminently controlable, and solemn.

        The crowds can convene if and when Cindy gets arrested. That's when we get a million folks showing up in Crawford. Not before.

        "You don't lead by pointing and telling people some place to go. You lead by going to that place and making a case." - Ken Kesey

        by Glinda on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 06:19:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Dave Matthews Band= Everybody Wake Up (none)
    Everybody Wake Up (Our Finest Hour Arrives)

    Everybody wake up
    If your living with your eyes closed
    See the man with a bomb in his hand
    Everybody wake up

    Oh baby it's not easy sometimes
    They build these walls ever higher and hide behind them
    Seems an odd way to try and make things right
    Oh I feel like I go crazy sometimes

    Our finest hour arrives
    See the pig dressed in his finest fine
    The believers stand behind him and smile
    As the day lights up with fire

    Everybody wake up
    If your living with your eyes closed
    See the man with a bomb in his hand
    Everybody wake up

    I Remember the words of the misguided fool
    Do unto others as you'd have them do
    Not an eye for an eye is the golden rule
    Just leaves a room full of blind men

    And the finest hour arrives
    See the pig dressed in his finest fine
    Don't believe him leave and stand behind him and smile
    As the day lights up with fire

    Everybody wake up....

    Everybody wake up
    if your living with your eyes closed
    see the man with a bomb in his hand
    Everybody wake up

  •  OMG...here's a lovely thought (none)
    They get arrested (that isn't the lovely thought) and we all go and stage a SILENT vigil 24/7 OUTSIDE THE JAIL they are in...signs, peaceful...gets on the news 24/7...

    Oh boy!!!

    •  We should all go to Crawford... (4.00)
      meet up with Cindy's group and at 6:00 am Thursday, start walking toward Bush's ranch, demanind that he meet with her as she has requested. Let them arrest all of us if they dare.
      •  NO! (none)
        There are a number of posts here explaining why this is a BAD idea. Unless you have been invited to be present by Cindy, STAY AWAY.

        I used to live in the United States of America. Now I live in a homeland.

        by homeland observer on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:30:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Once again (none)
          Cindy HAS invited people to join her. Cindy's comments on The Laura Flanders Show:

          We need more people here...we're getting a lot of press attention and it would be nice for as many people to come whenever they can come. To show them that, truly, 61% of American people want this war over and believe it was a mistake to begin with.

          Oh well, I wasn't using that civil liberty anyway.

          by think2004 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:01:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Once again, that was BEFORE (none)
            Cindy made that request BEFORE the threat of arrest was made. Take a deep breath and think this through.

            If some authority is determined to arrest Cindy, a large crowd will not keep that from happening. It could provide greater grounds for charging and holding her.

            If you want to do something, organize a support vigil in your own town. Make people aware of what Cindy is doing and why. Inform them of the arrest threat. Try to get your local media to cover your vigil. Keep it legal. Keep it civil.

            I used to live in the United States of America. Now I live in a homeland.

            by homeland observer on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 02:30:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Call Marty Sheen (none)
    He was a much better president, anyway.

    Get Sean Penn, maybe he can get Madonna to come to share a cell with the GoldStar Heroine.  And she can call Rosie O'Donnell, although it'd be dodgy sharing a cell with Rosie.

    And the Baldwins, don't forget the Baldwins.  And their wives.

    Can Springsteen make it?

    Is Ann Richards available?  

    More importantly, is there a pro bono Democrat lawyer left in America?

    •  Maybe not Stephen Baldwin (none)
      He appeared at the Republican National Convention last year, if memory serves me correctly. (Btw, does your username mean "fat old pig?")

      The Lord is a shoving leopard. - William A. Spooner

      by lirtydies on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:44:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  LOL! (none)
        Omg, don't know if you meant that, but you're killin me here.  My stomach hurts, can't breathe, gasping for air.  Hilarious.

        "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine Pay attention Georgie - 1800 dead Americans, 100,000+ dead Iraqis, all on your head. WWJS?

        by Miss Blue on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:07:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Whoops (none)
          Sorry, I probably should have elaborated - those are the only words I could think of that made any sense in pinyin. Absolutely no offense intended!

          The Lord is a shoving leopard. - William A. Spooner

          by lirtydies on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:12:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  So replace the Bad Baldwin with Bill Maher (none)
        But the point is that to get maximum international media exposure for a Cindy arrest, if there is one, there need to be very prominent people arrested with her.

        They are often disparaged as "limousine liberals," but some, like Marty Sheen, have shown themselves repeatedly to be Men of Conscience(tm) willing to sacrifice a measure of personal freedom for the defence of American liberty.

        Rosie O'Donnell rivals Oprah in popularity with suburban housewives.  When Susie Soccermom sees Rosie being cuffed and stuffed for "being a terrorist," the outrage will be palpable.

        "Mommy, why are they arresting Buffy the Vampire Slayer?"

        And, being defended by a team of Al Gore and John Kerry, noone goes to Gitmo.

        Hopefully.

        As for my Chinese name, it does, in fact, mean "old fat pig."  My official zhong guo mingzi, fu lai de, means "fortune and morality arrive," a very good Chinese name.

        But Chinese names sometimes defy translation.  For example, I have a friend whose name translates as "Red Fish King," wang hong yu, also a good Chinese name as red is a "good" color and fish are associated with luck.  I once had a student named "Yellow Banana," huang xiang jiao.

        As a consequence, I keep a ready supply of funny Chinese names, among them "old fat pig," lao fei zhu, "horse shit," ma da bien, and "Idiot boy," er bai wu.

        You see, I learned Chinese sitting on a bar stool.

        At The Best Little Whorehouse in China.

        And I like it when pretty Chinese girls laugh.

        Chinese girls are my favorite flavor.

        How I came to China is a story unto itself.

        You see, I was banished from the Theocratic Christian Homeland of Oklahoma for not being a Christian, so I did a Bertrand Russell.  Now I live in China, where I teach English and American Studies at a "key" university, alma mater to both Zhou En Lai and Wen Zou Bao.

        It's like being a professor at the Chinese equivalent of Yale.

      •  Stephen Baldwin is (none)
        a howling Christian conservative.  Which explains why he is hosting "Fear Factor."  ???

        This Far and No Further
        Tons of info and opinion on the right's attempted takeover of the USA

        by Black Max on Tue Aug 09, 2005 at 09:40:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  So the Bushies (4.00)
    are going to make a martyr out of Cindy?  Let's see.  Who else has been arrested for what they believe.  Martin Luther King?  Nelson Mandela?  Ghandi?  I am sure there are many others, but I can't think of any off hand.

    Remember - all publicity is good publicity.  If Cindy is arrested it will make the networks bigtime.  The ruthlessness of the Bushies picking on one grieving mother who only wants to talk with Bush.  Should be interesting.

    If science proves facts that conflict with Buddhist understanding, Buddhism must change accordingly. " - The Dalai Lama

    by LynChi on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:16:59 AM PDT

  •  If this really happens... (none)
    ...there is going to be even further backlash against the GOP. Do they honestly think they can just arrest the mother of a dead soldier on national security grounds?! It's completely absurd.

    I would venture to bet the congressional GOP is going to be crapping its pants if this actually happens. They're the ones who'll take the fallout in 2006.

    "You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." -Malcolm X

    by PsiFighter37 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:18:29 AM PDT

    •  Wow... (none)
      "I would venture to bet the congressional GOP is going to be crapping its pants if this actually happens. They're the ones who'll take the fallout in 2006."

      Right--not because arresting Cindy is morally repugnant, but because IT COULD HURT THEM AT THE POLLS. Yes, I know that a lot of the Dems think the same way, but...

  •  where is the ACLU? (none)
    Where are the free-speech lawyers who can advise on what is a legal protest?

    Where is the Paypal account so I can send money to help Cindy, possibly for bail?

    I wish I could be there with her, but since I can't, I can at least send money and moral support.

    This could be another Greenham Common.

    *Springsteen for President*

    by hrh on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:19:03 AM PDT

  •  Make Thursday, the million person anti-war march (4.00)
    Anyone who can, should go to Crawford on Thursday, and join Cindy.
    •  What about simultaneous marches (4.00)
      in other, faraway cities?

      ...bewitched, bothered and bewildered am I...

      by doodlebug on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:30:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  newsletter from Code Pink (4.00)
      THis is extracted from a newsletter from Code Pink - how I found out they are getting involved:

      "...Inspired by the power of Cindy's determination Diane [Wilson of Code Pink] pledged that CODEPINK would join her in solidarity by staging a hunger strike. Diane has already begun her fast and many of us are making our way to Crawford to join her, including Ann Wright, former US Army colonel and senior diplomat who resigned after 35 years of service because of the Iraq war...".

      Here's a link:

      http://www.demaction.org/dia/organizations/codepink/signUp.jsp?key=530

      If you go to the Code Pink website you can connect with a Code Pink group in your area.

      http://www.codepinkalert.org/

    •  I was planning to be there Thursday (none)
      In fact, I was in the process of booking my rental car when I saw this.

      I am going to go ahead and plan to be there, and meanwhile, just sit tight and see what happens. Getting arrested isn't an option for me, because my young son will be with me. (We'll be heading from San Antonio to Dallas on Thursday, and I was going to detour to Camp Casey for a bit.) But I'll be ready and willing to protest in whatever other manner is necessary.

      This threat of arrest sounds like a bunch of crap... she's a national security threat on Thursday, but not on Wednesday? Gimme a break. Plus, we all know that it's not Cindy who is the threat to our national security - it's the shrub she wants to talk to. How about arresting that bastard?

      Oh well, I wasn't using that civil liberty anyway.

      by think2004 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:21:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Do that!!! (none)
      organize a march towards Crawford!!! Don't talk about it - do it. Today is Thursday - time has come. I would be with you if I could. But I'm 50000 miles away from Crawford - and I'm on the list.
      The Crawford media ist with you. I know that. They had problems with the president and suffered much enough (Iconoplast).
      Good luck.
      Juergen

      Bushfire? - No! - fire Bush!

      by juergendopp on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:33:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Stand with Cindy -- but not in Crawford (none)
      A big crowd in Crawford will be counter productive. Do not provide any political cover for those want to be able to say that things in Crawford were "getting out of hand." Keep the activity in Crawford visible, but keep it small and very controlled.

      Stand with Cindy in your own town. Organize a vigil or other event. Keep it legal, keep it civil. Do not let the news story turn into a debate about whether a large crowd in Crawford is or is not a threat. The news story needs to stay focussed on what Cindy is saying about Iraq and the tactics being used by the current administration to silence dissent and hide the truth.

      I used to live in the United States of America. Now I live in a homeland.

      by homeland observer on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:44:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is really smart, and I'll tell you why: (none)
        Because it will get local coverage in your area - a local hook to a national story - so we get double coverage - the national story gets megaphoned, and local citizens see that folks in their area care deply about the issue.  Plan a candlelight vigil somewhere prominent in your town, with plenty of space for media should they come, a planned message (keep it very very simple, do not drag in stuff that is peripheral), have a photgenic component, such as kids carrying pictures of their parents in uniform "over there", and stay on message.  God, if this goes on past next Monday, the kids at my son's HS will have vigil in the dark of the early AM, and I'll bring the coffee and doughnuts for the media.

        I donated to ePluribus Media. Support citizen journalism!

        by dksbook on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:27:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Free speech is a threat to national security... (4.00)
    didn't you get the memo?  But seriously, Bush has absolutely no character.  We need to take full advantage of Bush's screw up here and make him pay a price for his cowardly attitude towards facing the consequences of his actions.  We need to write letters to the editor, bombard our Members of Congress, and generally hit the Media hard.  

    It galls me that Bush has somehow cast himself as a moral figure when he is so transparently phony and sociopathic.  It's not him I'm mad at, it's the stupid American voters who support him.  

  •  These evil doers are like cockroaches (4.00)
    They can't stand to have a light put on them. Bushco prefers to operate in the dark. Arresting a mother whose son you sacrificed- real smart move Bush. The media better do their job and be there if this goes down.
  •  This is a lie (1.00)
    try to link to the webpage this guy who wrote this uses. It is not active. There is nothing posted on cindy's page at all. I think we have been had.
  •  plenty of time (none)
    for the MSM to get their shit together so as to cover this (Camp Casey as well as her arrest).

    "What they found is a silver bullet in the form of a person."

    by subtropolis on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:23:43 AM PDT

  •  Drudge Fucker (none)
    Only the Bush admninistration could take a grieving Mother and make her into a terrorist.

    And from the big GOP internet shill himself,

    DRUDGE-FUCKER PROVES HE'S A SHILL FOR BUSHCO BY PERPETUATING THEIR MYTHS/LIES

    "And this here is the ass of a drunken shitbird!"

    by Calamity Jane on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:28:41 AM PDT

  •  I Know He's Arrogant and Stupid. . . (none)
    . . . but it seems almost impossible to think he could be this arrogant and stupid. They're going to arrest the mother of a fallen soldier who has shown nothing but grace, class and dignity through all of this -- all while the cameras are rolling?

    I don't buy it. They may try and pressure her to leave, but arresting her would be a political nightmare of the highest order. I'll believe it when I see it.

    Remember: Cindy Sheehan = America's Mom

    •  There is something weird about it... (none)
      Having her cleared out in the middle of the night without warning is more Bush's style.

      I wonder if it's local law enforcement getting its revenge on the Bush nuisance by a form of work to rule? A warning given so far in advance to someone they can guess won't back down -- the person who gave the warning is either stupid to a COSMIC degree or he/she has other things in mind, like creating embarassment for BuSh in a way that can't be criticized.

      "But sir, you wanted her out of the way, so we asked her to leave!"

      "Salvation is by way of the truth, not by way of the fatherland" -- Chaadaev

      by sagesource on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:11:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No reason to put it past him (none)
      Remember Susan Niederer?
  •  Democratic candidates: this is your chance! (none)
    Can you imagine Hillary Clinton joining Cindy's vigil? This is a priceless opportunity for someone with the courage to seize it.

    Greg Shenaut

  •  How much national attention did NYC-RNC get? (none)
    How much national attention and outrage resulted from the arrests of over 1800 people, many of them completely innocent at the Republican convention in New York City last summer?

    What's your state doing to protect our votes?

    by retired on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:33:22 AM PDT

    •  I think the answer is... none, right? (none)
      •  This is different (none)
        There the protestors were a side show to the convention, kept at a distance and lost in the middle of NYC.

        Here it's potentially THE SHOW, out in the middle of rural Texas with nothing else around (except W).

        Then the protestors represented a minority of this Country, the majority still approved of Bush and his intitiation and handling of the war - today that's no longer true.

        Right now, Cindy Sheehan and a ragtag band of 50 people are easy to ignore if need be.  But the more people show up, the harder this will become to pretend its not happening or means nothing.  

        Symbols are important.  Last month it was Paul Hackett, this month it can be Cindy Sheehan, we should do everything we can to make it so.

         

  •  Cindy has to have a lawyer TODAY (none)
    I am sure we can find one if she doesn't. Mebbe Alan Dershowitz would come. Seriously.

    Be a Carville, not a Colmes

    by seesdifferent on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:34:38 AM PDT

  •  FREQUENT FLYER MILES (none)
    Okay, all of you corporate flyers with 100,000's of thousands of miles...cough 'em up.

    How many can get on flights on Wednesday?  Spend Wednesday and Thursday in Crawford?!?!  I hear the spa is lovely....they are currently renovating it (cough, cough).

    As to ATTORNEYS....someone with great goggling skills...look up the attorneys that sued the various folks regarding the 2000 and 2004 elections, those are your people, find them, call them (I have to get to work until 6 tonite).

    Find out who the THOUSANDS of attorneys were across the country that sat at the POLLING SITES...those are your ATTORNEYS.  We only need a couple.

    Who can jump on that?

    If you need help later tonite, I'm here.

    Cheers.

    •  clarification (none)
      sorry to get all lawyerly about lawyers, but representing cindy is a totally different thing than sitting at a polling place, and it requires more specialized credentials.  to represent her directly, the lawyer needs to be a) admitted to the bar in texas b) versed if not well versed in demo defense, which obviously combines elements of criminal law, 1st amendment, and who knows what else depending on her specific charges.  
      i'm sure folks meeting this description will step up -- tmcdallas is volunteering info, dallas aclu is working on observers (not the same as retained counsel but helpful and may lead to actual representation), and i sure hope cindy's people are in touch with the Guild as mentioned upthread.
  •  It will never happen. (none)
    Even the Bush administration can't be so stupid as to actually arrest the mother of a dead US soldier for sitting on a lawn chair miles away from the Big Man's compound.

    If they do arrest her, I will be dumbfounded.

  •  Now that is just plain old...... (4.00)
    UN-AMERICAN!!  We have the right to peacefully assemble!

    Oh, that's right.........we have that pesky Patriot Act to contend with.  Silly me.

    This is ridiculous!  LTE's and e-mails to Congress critters everyone!  Cindy and her group are NOT a threat to national security.  How ridiculous to even suggest that.  Time to make a REALLY BIG STINK about this!

  •  Arrest video footage is worth its weight in gold (4.00)
    This must be a political trick, they aren't that stupid. I can't imagine being the Texas pol who has to run against political ads of Gold Star moms (who lost a soldier in combat) being arrested because they are a threat to national security.    
    •  Witness, Inc. (none)
      Perhaps this group will help with video documentation of any confrontation.  They are involved worldwide in human rights violations, and I believe they also trained people to video the protests and arrests at the Republican convention in NYC.

      From their website:  www.witness.org

      "WITNESS uses the power of video to open the eyes of the world to human rights abuses. By partnering with local organizations around the globe, WITNESS empowers human rights defenders to use video to shine a light on those most affected by human rights violations, and to transform personal stories of abuse into powerful tools of justice.  Over the past decade, WITNESS has partnered with more than 200 groups in 50 countries, bringing often unseen images, untold stories and seldom heard voices to the attention of key decision makers, the media, and the general public - catalyzing grassroots activism, political engagement, and lasting change."

      What do you all think? Should I write to them?

      ...bewitched, bothered and bewildered am I...

      by doodlebug on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:10:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  They've arrested gold star moms before (none)
      Sue Niederer was arrested in September for interrupting Laura Bush and asking her why the twins were not serving.
      •  Actually, if memory serves (none)
        She was detatained and released.  Never actually charged with anything.

        They just wanted to get her out of the room.

        •  Actually (none)
          she was already out of the room when she was handcuffed and taken away in the back of a police wagon.

          She was at the time in front of the building and speaking to reporters. THAT was her crime. THAT was the threat. Meanwhile, Laura Bush continued speaking as if nothing had happened--it was barely a blip during the entire speech. Cold-hearted criminals, every one of them. The people who should have trouble sleeping at night never do.

        •  Not to be overly technical (none)
          But an "arrest" happens at the moment you're not free to leave.  You don't have to be charged with anything to be arrested.  So the comment was right - she was arrested.
  •  I bet they back down (none)
    They can't be this stupid.

    Can they?

    She's soft spoken, though her words are steel.

    She makes great television.  

    She's got that momma power and Bush is really no match for that.  And she's got a real issue that resonates:  why the fuck are we in this war, and how did we get there?

    They.  Can't. Be. This. Stupid.

    Putting her in handcuffs or arresting her makes her into the Rosa Parks of the peace movement/Democracy accountability movement.

    They think CNN goes batshit over missing pretty white women?  What the hell with TV do with Cindy in handcuffs?

    Juxtapose her picture with a picture of a free Karl Rove, Scooter Libby, et. al.?

    How about a picture of Rumsfeld and Tenet geting Medals of Freedom or whatever they got?

    They'll turn her into a keynoter at the Democratic National Convention in 2008, helping rebrand the Democrartic Party into the party of morality and accountability.

    They.

    Can't.

    Be.

    This.

    Stupid.

    We are not "compassionate conservatives." We are "fighting liberals." And we'll kick your ass.

    by Pachacutec on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:37:40 AM PDT

  •  What's the Shrub afraid of? (4.00)
    If Ms. Sheehan or anyone else does get arrested, it'll show just how much of a punkass, spineless shithead Bush and the rest of his gang of hoods really are. Imagine, the so-called, "leader of the free world" AFRAID to have to meet with the mother of one the dead pawns in his real-life game of Risk, unless of course, it was a pre-arranged, controlled, and scripted photo op.  George, we all knew you were a coward and hypocrite, but now we know you're nothing but a total, dispicable loser, unable to come to grips with the concequences of your actions. You, mr. bush, make me ashamed to be an american. As for Ms. Sheehan, YOU make me PROUD to be an American. You are the real voice and concience (sp?) of the country.

    Brakes are for pussies - Big Johnson

    by The Other ones on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:39:52 AM PDT

  •  Even if this is a political trick... (none)
    and they aren't planning on doing it...

    Isn't spreading this rumour enough political hay to help the dem cause?

    Sounds like a Rove-worthy rumour...

  •  RAGING GRANNIES OF TUCSON (4.00)
    They need to get to Crawford!!! Has anyone heard/seen them?

    Women from like 65 to 94 that are PROTESTING the war...they were on the TODAY show today.

    5 were ARRESTED when they tried to enlist in the ARMY in Tucson...the ARMY recruiters felt THREATENED by them.

    SO they know about being arrested!  They are LOVELY LADIES...

  •  Let's help Cindy (none)
    Could someone post the email addresses of the MSM so we can contact them to keep this in the news. Phone numbers would also be helpful.

    What is going on with the paypal account for the crawford house?

    What kind of supplies does Cindy need and how can we get them to her?

    Let's keep this topic current!

  •  Bush's compassionate conservatism (none)
    now we know what a compassionate conservative really is capable of.
    •  The compassionate chickenhawk (none)
      will have Cindy arrested because he is either so cold blooded that he can fell no empahty for the mother of an american soldier killed in action, or he's afraid of her.
  •  Cell phone camera (none)

    Does Cindy have a cell phone that can take photos then post them online. This would be great so we can see who the people are that are making these threats, unless of course they just phoned her.

    Also would be great if the "Billionaires for Bush" group would show up for the Crawford Bush Fundraiser.

    Thoughts from Connecticut - Recommended Reading - Growing Up Red

    by ctsteve on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:46:36 AM PDT

  •  link's not working. n/t (none)

    "Free speech is not to be regulated like diseased cattle and impure butter." William O. Douglas.

    by Street Kid on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:48:29 AM PDT

  •  thanks for frontpaging this! n/t (none)

    Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.

    by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:48:33 AM PDT

  •  Get thee a video camera (none)
    and keep it rolling 24/7.  Better yet, a live webcam so that the Ultra Super Secret Service can't just take the tapes.

    You can't claim supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.

    by Magnus Greel on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:48:54 AM PDT

  •  CINDY SHEEHAN ON FIRST HOUR OF HARTMANN (none)
    THOM HARTMANN SHOW LIVE TOMORROW MORNING
    TO TALK ABOUT THIS

    www.thomhartmann.com

    ALSO, BEN BURCH SAYS THAT IF ARRESTED UNDER THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY UNDER PATRIOT ACT, NO ACCESS TO LAWYER

  •  They will definitely arrest her./ New comics on HL (none)
    I was arrested at the Repub convention in NY last year, I have no doubt that they will do arrest Cindy also.

    Check out the new Political Comics at The Hollywood Liberal.(you can also read my arrest story)

    Bush: Geography Lesson
    Visiting The Wounded
    Chill Out.

    HLs Main Page

    If you like it there are lots more at. HLs Comic Feature Page

    Thank You

  •  My heart goes out to Cindy (none)
    Finally, a military mom who is not afraid to speak her mind. I wish there were more moms like her who are unafraid to tow the "official" line. Until more family members start speaking out against this unnecessary and ill-advised war, more of our troops will die.

    Meanwhile, Bush begins another really loong presidential vacation...I hope Michael Moore is gathering all this material for his next movie.

    •  We have been speaking out! (4.00)
      No one listens.  We were told to shut up and get in line with the democratic party goose step in 2004.  I've been blogging for over two years on DU, Kerry, Dean, and Clark sites as armymom...and am proud to say that I was banned from the Kerry website when I refused to back down and only criticize Bush and republicans for hypocrisy in Iraq.  

      See also the websites for Military Families Speak Out, www.mfso.org, and Veterans against the Iraq War, www.vaiw.org

      •  Kudos to you, Sharon! (none)
        I am aware that some of you have been speaking out. I just have been wishing for the kind of exposure that CNN has given Cindy. Shame on Kerry for banning you from his site. I wonder if all the Dems who voted for this war are rethinking what they did.
    •  Why only momms an Michael Moore (none)
      it is your country!
      Do the same. There are reasons enough to do the same. Wake up and stand up against this rude administration! They will get you all!!!
      Sorry for this emotional comment.
      Juergen

      Bushfire? - No! - fire Bush!

      by juergendopp on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:14:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Time for a road trip and a call for help! (4.00)
    I was planning on going back down to TX later this week to see my son off and visit Cindy over the weekend, but I may be too late.  PLEASE do whatever you can to help these moms and get the word out everywhere.

    I received an e-mail early this morning from Lila Lipscomb as follows:

    Hi all,
    Please see below.  These are my moms in our National Group Gold Star Families for Peace.  Please forward this request to anyone who may want to support us in our efforts.  
    As many of you know this battle has been going on for quite some time.  Yes we need peace in our world, yes we need peace in our nation, yes we need peace in our lives.  But we need accountability for peace.  Please support us in our efforts for peace.  
    Lila Lipscomb,
    Mother of three now, was four.  Son Michael Pedersen, killed in Karbala Iraq on 4/2/03 along with five of his buddies.

    Here is the e-mail that Lila forwarded from Celeste Zapata:
    Dear ones,
    You have heard by now that our friends and Gold Star Families for Peace members Cindy Sheehan, her sister Dede and Amy Branham went to Crawford Tx to insist on a meeting with George Bush about the war and the loss of our sons in this war.

    Cindy bravely said she is not leaving till Bush meets with her, and the administration sent out two high level reps to speak to her on Saturday- she discussed the disastrous war policy and concluded by saying, "I may be a grieving mother, but I am not stupid"  and telling the gentlemen, Steven Hadley and Joe Hagin, "you are intelligent men, I don't believe you believe what you are telling me"  I dare to say these fellows had no idea who they were talking to when they went to talk to Cindy.

    I plan to go to Crawford this week, to stand with my Friend and to speak for my son Sherwood.

    I hope the religious community will step up and support our witness, I think it is akin to the witness of all of the nonviolent advocates who came before us, we are speaking truth to power- so - who do you know in the progressive religious communities of Dallas, Waco, Austin  and Crawford?

    Are there committed progressive religious people there who can help out, who would come out to witness to non violent committed protest?  Are there United Methodists who would join this Methodist?  Are there Friends in the area who might be willing to add their spirit and dignity to this unknown and yet profound effort to stand for justice?

    if you have anything to share, any contacts, anyone to alert-please let me know.

    I am going there- I am afraid I am hopeful - I trust that my steps are guided by the lord of Peace, any wisedom you can share I appreciate

    with love and faith
    Celeste Zappala

    please share with others as you can

  •  ACCORDINGTO THOM HARTMANN'S ENGINEER (none)
    "cindy is swamped, her words"
    "but she is OK!"
  •  BEN BURCH WANTS TO HELP WITH BANDWIDTH (4.00)
    FOR MEETWITHCINDY.ORG

    IF YOU NEED HELP, PLEASE EMAIL BEN BURCH

    benburch@pobox.com

    WHITE ROSE WILL OFFER FREE BANDWIDTH
    HE HAS A 100 MBIT LINE AND 2000 GB OF BANDWIDTH SHE CAN HAVE FOR THE ASKING

  •  "Informed by" who? (none)
    "she's been informed that beginning Thursday, she and her companions will be considered a threat to national security and will be arrested."

    Law Enforcement acting in their official capacity? An officer speaking off the record? Fed, State, Local?

    No-one who voted against the USAPATRIOT Act has lost an election. I am not currently Licensed to Practice in this State. Or Yours.

    by ben masel on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:56:56 AM PDT

  •  I am calling my Senators (none)
    You never know if they are going be caught up enough with the news to act quickly..They could coordinate. There is time to find out if its bull or if its ssomething to get on about

    I'll let you know how my calls go..
    If anybody is from NY

    Schumer's numbers
    NY 212-486-4430
    DC 202224-6542

    Clinton:
    NYC 212-688-6262
    DC  202-224-4451

  •  confirmation please (none)
    no slight meant to the diarist, but both cindy and herself and TXsharon have been posting regularly from crawford.

    i'd like to see independent confirmation of this threat, along with some more details.  this is something i look for even from MSM sources, but it's even more important when it comes to "some guy on the internet said..." news.  again, this is not meant to question the integrity of the OP in any way, it's simply the way i process information.

    this threat seems especially stupid, considering the WH press corps is sitting around crawford with little to do and locked out of their normal level of access (as bumiller noted this morning.)  of course, rove and other key media-savvy people appear to be on their own vacations, so i suppose it's possible that king george and hadley actually think this is a good idea...

    we'd better decide now if we are going to be fearless men or scared boys.
    — e.d. nixon, montgomery improvement association

    by zeke L on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:59:44 AM PDT

  •  Called My Congresscritters.... (none)
    all three of them...

    Boxer
    Feinstein
    and the dreaded Dreier.

    Put it in context with what General Champion said.

    A top US general in Afghanistan said there is little new in the search for Osama bin Laden.

    General James Champion told reporters in a teleconference there's nothing new about the al-Qaida leader's whereabouts "from 90 days ago."

    I asked how a grieving mother can be considered an immediate national security risk and nothing is really being done for the real risk.

    I'm not going anywhere. I'm standing up, which is how one speaks in opposition in a civilized world. - Ainsley Hayes

    by jillian on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:01:47 AM PDT

  •  I understand Cindy is from California.... (4.00)
    We should contact Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein.  They should be standing beside her.
    Howard Dean as well.  The entire Democratic caucus should be standing beside her.
    •  I called their offices (none)
      and let them know this is an outrage.

      They're doing nothing to find Osama and yet this grieving mother is a National Security 3 days from now.

      I'm not going anywhere. I'm standing up, which is how one speaks in opposition in a civilized world. - Ainsley Hayes

      by jillian on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:08:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  link not working (none)
    the link/website doesn't seem to work.

    I'd like to help Ms. Sheehan in some way, and maybe I can do so by going to the website, but the site is down maybe?

    •  BEN BURCH WANTS TO HELP WITH BANDWIDTH (none)
      BEN BURCH WANTS TO HELP WITH BANDWIDTH
      FOR MEETWITHCINDY.ORG

      IF YOU NEED HELP, PLEASE EMAIL BEN BURCH

      benburch@pobox.com

      WHITE ROSE WILL OFFER FREE BANDWIDTH
      HE HAS A 100 MBIT LINE AND 2000 GB OF BANDWIDTH SHE CAN HAVE FOR THE ASKING

  •  Is there (none)
    time to get to Craford by bus? if so, who else wants to go/has transportation? I'm in DC and will leave at the drop of a hat.
  •  arrested - I don't wonder (4.00)
    Dear Kossaks - this is the moment to do something (I really don't know what). Go there, if you can. Stay outside the jail and give her the feeling: there is someone with me. She is doing it for all of you - not only for the soldier-families.
    I'm appelled, that a mother who wants the answer why her son got killed has go to jail. The President must have good reasons to explain that. May be he cannot explain it - that is his problem.
    Juergen

    Bushfire? - No! - fire Bush!

    by juergendopp on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:03:13 AM PDT

    •  More Sons Killed While He Vacations... (none)
      She's a grieving mother who wants a few minutes from her dead son's Commander-In-Chief, who's taking the longest vacation in history -- while more boys like Cindy's son Casey are in Iraq getting killed in action.

      And SHE'S getting threatened with arrest? This makes me sick.

      Start the caravans....

      Wars of choice are wars of crime.

      by TX Unmuzzled on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:18:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Start the caravans (none)
        That is the right thing TX! You are "near by". Just do it. There will come a lot of days you can do other things. Take these days for your country.
        Good luck,
        Juergen

        Bushfire? - No! - fire Bush!

        by juergendopp on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:09:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Cindy, email me (4.00)
    I know of excellent legal representation for you.
    can't discuss more than that here.  Please email.

    tmcdallas@yahoo.com

  •  Let's get bipartisan too (4.00)
    How about contacting Ron Paul, a member of the House from Texas, who is a Libertarian/Republican and has been against the Iraq war from the beginning?
  •  Why Link's Not Working (none)
    We put up that site last night and it's overrun with traffic, and we're mirroring it now to ease the pressure.
    It's also crashed afterdowningstreet.org which is on the same box
    It'll be back: www.meetwithcindy.org

    http://www.davidswanson.org

    by David Swanson on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:07:46 AM PDT

  •  HENRY WAXMAN!!! (none)
    Has anyone contacted Waxman?  He's been on Bush like white on rice since he realized he was lied into voting for the IWR.  He's in the House, is the ranking dem on the government reform committee, represents some district in Los Angeles.
  •  The media... (none)
    ...seems to blanche when they hear Cindy say that Bush killed her son Casey. I think they're just not used that level of frankness and honesty.
    They better get used to it.

    The truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing the matter with that. Except it ain't so. --Twain

    by MichaelPH on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:10:06 AM PDT

  •  If Cindy's From CA.... (none)
    Let's see if the CA Democratic Party has any spine left.

    Let's call and see what they can do....

    I'm not going anywhere. I'm standing up, which is how one speaks in opposition in a civilized world. - Ainsley Hayes

    by jillian on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:11:22 AM PDT

  •  on my way (4.00)
    I live in Fort Hood/Killeen, Texas and will make the drive to Crawford tomorrow to join/document the protest.
  •  if this is true (none)
    Why would Cindy be warned this far in advance? To scare her off? So she would call the media who would show up and be waiting for the big arrest scene right before Dick and Condi get there for the fundraisin' bar-be-cue?

    I dunno. Doesn't make sense to me. 24 hour notice, OK. But a full 3-4 days?

  •  Mothers of dead soldiers scare the Bushies. (none)

    We're afraid of them, therefore they're terrorists.

    What brave, new world, that has such cowards in it.

    Wilbur from Charlotte's Web turned out okay, and he was just some pig. :)

    by cskendrick on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:13:06 AM PDT

  •  If this is true, let her be arrested. (none)
    Like gfactor argued already in this diary: let her be arrested.

    Just make sure it's well publicized. Have lots of cameras there.

    I mean, you just can't buy publicity like that! "Mother of fallen soldier arrested as a threat to national security". That's priceless!

    I do not have my own blog.

    by Frank on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:14:18 AM PDT

  •  Confirmation Requested (none)
    Unsourced rumor could be propaganda. Let's go slow and check this story out.
  •  Does Sheehan have a response to Drudge? (none)
    The attack dogs have been let loose on Cindy Sheehan and we need to have a concerted response to this smear campaign.  The response is obvious but I believe that it needs to be in her words.
    •  Briefly on Hartmann's show this morning (none)
      She said she wanted to be polite at first and not talk ill of their meeting
      •  also (none)
        see RAWSTORY
        She's quoted out of context

        And the important question is not when Cindy started demanding an end to a war based on lies or when Bush started hiding from her behind Matt Grudge, but the fact that he did in fact start a war based on lies and refuses to speak about it or to respond to Conyer's questions about the DS Memos.  The evidence and bodies keep piling up -- the question is not how Cindy got to her current position but why in the hell anyone is not with her.

        http://www.davidswanson.org

        by David Swanson on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:22:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Is this post for real? (1.40)
    Is this post really trying to assert that this woman is going to be arrested for her views?

    Have you all lost it?  Is this the democratic underground?  Do I require a tinfoil hat to be here?

    •  better question (none)
      are you really surprised that this would happen? Whether this is true or not - does it surprise you that they would stoop to this? Honestly?

      While I'd like to see evidence that this is true, I think it's scarier that people doubt this could possibly be happening. It's dangerous when people refuse to believe that our government is incapable of committing horrible crimes against its citizens, including violating their Constitutional rights. Wake up.

    •  I wonder... (none)
      ...what you don't buy in all this? What is so difficult to believe in all of it? Because there's been a lot of information coming out of the Crawford protest site in the last few days...

      Check out Code PinkThey're pretty serious.

      The truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing the matter with that. Except it ain't so. --Twain

      by MichaelPH on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:26:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Tinfoil hats (2.50)
        Because EVERY TIME someone cries wolf about being arrested for free speech, they end up being wrong.  It's always made up, it's always used to make believe we're in a police state.

        It's ridiculous.  I'm saying, right now, it's not going to happen.  It's the same as the rumors of a draft, rumors we were going to start attacking Iran on July 27th, etc etc.

        •  I think... (none)
          ...ridiculous is a little strong don't you? I mean, how many times have protestors been arrested outside a Republican event? Think of the Republican convention. Hundreds were arrested and held until the convention ended. No charges, just swept out of the way until the Republican jerkfest ended.
          So nobody is saying crazy tin foil hat stuff...it sounds pretty much par for the course to me.

          The truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing the matter with that. Except it ain't so. --Twain

          by MichaelPH on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:51:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Agreed, there were a ton of folks (none)
            arrested in NY who were legally and peacefully exercising their right to free speech. They did everything the cops told them to and were still hassled and picked up. Heck, the cops were even going after bystanders. So don't be so naive as to think this never happens. Let's save the "tinfoil hat" rhetoric for truly out there conspiracy type stuff like rumors that this administration would be so crazy as to reveal the identity of an undercover CIA asset to get back at her husband. Wait a second, they DID do that....Anyway, I also don't think she's gonna be arrested, especailly if media is present. It would look terrible for Bush. But it wouldn't surprise me in the least if she has been threatened.
        •  Cindy... (none)
          ...on the Ed Schultz show just said it herself. A Texas Legislator called her and warned her. Not a friendly warning either...

          The truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing the matter with that. Except it ain't so. --Twain

          by MichaelPH on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:41:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  you need to get out more (none)
          EVERY TIME someone cries wolf about being arrested for free speech, they end up being wrong.  It's always made up, it's always used to make believe we're in a police state.

          sorry to be the one to break it to you, but you are woefully ill-informed.

          plenty of people have been arrested for exercising their constitutional rights to freedom of speech and assembly, and it's become a serious problem in the last four years or so.

          sure there are plenty of people screaming that their rights are being infringed as a cover to real crimes they are being arrested and charged for, but there are many many incidents of people's rights being curtailed, especially when it comes to confrontations with king george the 43rd.

          you should have come down to manhattan last september if you don't believe it.  i was there, and i saw the police state in all its naked shame.  i saw people beaten to the concrete just for standing on street corners, i saw blood and gas and dogs, i saw people released after illegal incarceration with second-degree chemical burns from being held in a superfund site.

          i wasn't wearing a tinfoil hat BTW, i was wearing a flourescent green hat, taking notes and pictures and video.

          we'd better decide now if we are going to be fearless men or scared boys.
          — e.d. nixon, montgomery improvement association

          by zeke L on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 04:17:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  It's a valid website (none)
      Cindy has announced it several times.

      I just tried the site and got the following Updated:

      "Sorry! We're working on it!

      Access to the "Meet with Cindy" website is temporarily unavailable due to excessive traffic. The site will be accessible in a very short time."

  •  Just called.... (none)
    think I know why we aren't winning races....

    I'm not going anywhere. I'm standing up, which is how one speaks in opposition in a civilized world. - Ainsley Hayes

    by jillian on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:21:37 AM PDT

  •  If this is true (none)
    Every single person here (who cannot be in TX)needs to make calls to:

    #1. Their own Senators and Representatives, whether they are Republican or Democrat and ask that they stop this from happening.

    #2. Cindy's Senators and Representative. I don't know what part of CA she is from, but those people need to get a million phone calls to protect this woman's right to protest.

    Bush is scared of a mother who lost her son because of his bullshit war, and instead of meeting with her to hear her complaints, he is having her arrested... A true chickenhawk to the end, eh W?

  •  Let's get there and protest (none)
    We need to get there quickly and protest this. Texas Kossaks, this is a time to come up big. We can take control of this and use it.

    anyone wanting to organize buses from dc or elsewhere, i believe mine is the only diary on it so far.

    Texans, can you get maps and establish meeting points, basically help coordinate with your local knowledge?

  •  Take a detour to Texas, folks. (4.00)
    1. Goldstar military mom being dragged in handcuffs for simply staging a protest outside the ranch of a vacationing President (during a time of war).

    Bush MUST make a reply.

    2. Protest grows larger and larger and a "Woodstock" type event sprouts.  National media coverage for the  "Camp Casey Standoff" is a daily ritual -- especially when Bush has visitors to his ranch.  A modern peace movement is reinvigorated throughout the U.S.

    Bush MUST make a reply.

    --------------------------

    Either way, Cindy has won!  The neocons will not have an easy ride anymore.

  •  She should call every media outlet (none)
    And then they should go willingly, as the news cams record this travesty of justice.  Now THAT will be a public relations nightmare.  If you really are dedicated to something, being willing to go to jail goes along with it.
  •  called my senators (none)
    BOTH NY and DC offices..

    Be sure to call bot hhome state and DC offices!!!

    This is recess time for the guys

  •  What an Ass (none)
    I happened to come upon this column at a website called Men's News Daily.  I thought I'd share a few snippets.  

    I had only two thoughts

    1.  What an asshole.
    2.  Is this representative of Clear Channel's thinking on Muslims and on Cindy Sheehan?

    http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/m-n/newman/2005/newman080805.htm

    "A Mother Insults Her Fallen Son

    Cindy Sheehan does not believe those filthy ragheads and camel jockeys in Iraq deserve freedom. Nor does she believe they should be allowed to live in peace or be able to sleep at night without wondering if their genocidal dictator's bloodthirsty henchmen are going to kick their door in and drag the entire family off to a grisly torture chamber, where the parents will be made to watch their children be repeatedly raped and sodomized and finally blinded and dismembered while still alive.

    Her son adamantly disagreed with her. U.S. Army Specialist Casey Sheehan, in fact, disagreed with his mother so vehemently that he was willing to give his life so that brown-skinned Muslims he didn't even know could be free."

    At first I thought this must be from some deranged op-ed contributor.  Certainly not someone with a public profile.  I was wrong on that one, here's the info on the author.....

    Bob Newman, a decorated, retired US Marine, is host of the 'Gunny Bob Show' on Newsradio 850 KOA in Denver, and host of 'Inhuman Newman's Anger-Management Hour' on 630 KHOW, also in Denver. His 'Global Positioning Statement,' a daily insider's update on the war on terror, is carried by various Clear Channel radio stations from coast to coast. A ground-combat veteran, he is the director of international security & counterterrorism services for The GeoScope Group and is the military science & terrorism columnist for The Denver Daily News. He can be reached at bobnewman@clearchannel.com.

    Email this asshole, Newsradio KOA, and KHOW - and ask how someone this racist can be on the air.

    •  Men News Daily (none)
      This is the organization that archived all of the GOPUSA/Talon News articles that were unceremoniously scrubbed from the web after the professional demise of Jeff Gannon/James Guckert. That should tell you all you need to know.
    •  But the war (none)
      wasn't about freeing the Iraqi people.

      The GOP and the Elephant are both Introduced Species

      by roboton on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:36:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Just told Bob Neuman (?) it is GB (none)
      who is the threat to our national security.

      Maybe the limp left will get out of bed now, if this does happen.  Hell, it already has happened to others not as fameous as this mother of a dead soldier.  Bush better not try to touch her.

    •  Did anyone else catch the irony in this? (none)
      "...their genocidal dictator's bloodthirsty henchmen are going to kick their door in and drag the entire family off to a grisly torture chamber, where the parents will be made to watch their children be repeatedly raped and sodomized..."

      So, um, when exactly is the Pentagon going to release that second batch of Abu Ghraib recordings?

  •  Definite national security threat... (none)
    ...because Bush might die of shame if he had to talk to her.

    Or is that even theoretically possible?

    What a question to have to ask about the most powerful man in the world.

    "Salvation is by way of the truth, not by way of the fatherland" -- Chaadaev

    by sagesource on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:33:58 AM PDT

  •  How about some action? (none)
    Many here deride the rightwing "fighting keyboard" brigade. But take a look at yourselves.

    Cindy Sheehan is about to be arrested and what do we read here - "My heart goes out to her". "Keep a video camera running", etc. etc. Where is the call for all those who can to get down there and join her...stand with her and be ready to be arrested too.

    There is power in numbers. There is power in seeing many, many innocent law-abiding citizens being arrested as "security threats". It's called civil disobedience.

    Lots of talk here, but very little action. Sometimes more than donating another $20.01 is required. Sometimes typing your latest outrage at BushCo doesn't cut the mustard. This is one of those times. Cindy Sheehan needs us, not just our words.

  •  The New World ODOR (none)
    stinks, eh?

    remember the nuns that did some jail time not long ago for throwing blood on some nuclear missile silos?

    anyone see THAT event get any major press coverage? how many people in the U.S. know that some nuns did some jail time for protesting nuclear weapons?

    .005 percent?

    were the missiles dismantled and discarded because of their actions?

  •  I encourage people to be (4.00)
    a little sceptical that this will happen. The ammount of coverage she is getting leads me to believe that this will not happen. I think we run a risk of marginalization if we get to caught up in all of this, especially if nothing happens on Thursday. The more hyperbolic we get the worse it looks.

    Let's say she does get arrested on Thursday, or any other day for that matter. If we stay raional and calm before it happens the story is "Mother of dead soldier arrested as security threat." That's a powerfull story, especially for mothers across the land.

    But if the area gets flooded with highly emotional protesters the dynamics of the story change. Now it's "Protesters get unruly, some arrested."

    The best protests are always the quite, even tempered ones. The loud unruly ones are too easily spun against the protesters.

    •  Mike you stated it correctly (none)
      just as others here has already tried to stress
      the point that over reacting to this by swarming
      into Crawford could back fire on us in the worst way.

      It would be a terrible shame if most of the effect
      that her vigil is and can gain us, were to be
      destroyed by mishandling this moment.

      If there is a huge turn out in reaction to this
      it lends itself more to play into their hands of
      being able to arrest people due to the crowd perhaps
      being viewed as unrully. The fact is the larger
      the crowd the less control can be held over it.

      that in itself creates the possibility of someone
      stepping out of line on our side and creating a
      negative situation for us. Not to mention as
      someone else has already done the possiblility of
       one or more of the right planted within the crowd.

      It is very possible that she was told that she
      would be arrested by or after Thurs and I do not
      doubt that she was told this, especially if she said it.

      However the whole thing could be a very clever
      trap baited with just that threat. After all it
      is nothing more than a threat until it actually happens is it?

      The way that it can be used as a trap could be
      as  simply this. We follow our emotions and tons
      of people show up in Crawford to prevent her
      being arrested or support her if she is. So what
      do the Repugs do then? They do not arrest her
      and deney any threats or plans to do so.

      They simply feed the press with how those crazy
      Dems are so paranoid that they imagine all sorts
      of crazy plots and run off half cocked.

      Don't forget that the major news media has not
      abandoned their loyalty to Bush and the Repugs yet.

      The time that more should have been by her side was
      before this thursday issue was even raised. Or as is
      the case now after Thursday. That way the reaction
       is in no way seen as

      I know that there are those who can not go to
      Texas even when the time comes for it to be a
      wise move, just as I can not because of health
      issues here at home. However there are others
      that can and should if possible when they are
      really needed.

      One of the great things which would help in
      the biggest way is if we had a whole lot more
      of the mothers of that 1800 plus young men and
      women who have paid the ultimate price to show
      up there to be with here until this is resolved.

      There could hardly be any better representation
      than that.

      This post is because I want changes as bad as
      anyone here, but I still believe one of our
      biggest faults is letting our emotions over rule
      our best judgement sometimes instead of planing
      and organizing.

      They beat us because they are better organized and
      plan their actions much betrter than we have. We
      have to change that.

      Popeye

      I dream about waking up and finding out Bush has fell through his own Butthole and hung himself :)Popeye

      by eaglecries on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:16:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree, it could be a trap (none)
        to paint the anti-war movement as a bunch a lunatics. It would likely be a peaceful protest no matter how many people showed up, but Bushco will justify the arrests of some by saying that they felt the "crowd was getting too large or threatening" and much of america seeing an angry throng on tv will think so as well.

        Better to have the mighty Bushco descend on ONE sympathetic figure. They'll be painted instead as the bullies they are. Better that she have a lawyer and some lawmakers by her side to define the situation for the american public properly; as the abuse of one citizen's right to free speech. Better that those laymakers be seen as defenders of that right, and better that they too dare the administration to arrest them as "threats to national security" as well.

        How justified would Bushco look then?  

  •  I don't get it. (none)
    Her son DIED defending our national security. He sacrificed his life so others, like his mother, would be safe. She comes to the President to protest the war, saying she will leave once he agrees to meet with her personally. The President declares her a threat to national security.

    So now Ms. Sheehan is as much a threat as Saddam? As bin Laden? She didn't attack anyone. She didn't reveal a person's spouse to be an undercover agent. She's not planting car bombs in Baghdad.

    This goes beyond the usual "Bush is dumb" or Bush is evil" comments. The man is equating a protester with a terrorist. I'm glad papers like the NY Times and Wash. Post are writing about her.

    She's not throwing rocks at his windows. She's not toilet-papering his house. She's not calling Pizza Hut and ordering 20 medium-sized pepperoni pies in Bush's name. She's camped a few miles from his ranch, protesting about the loss of her son.

    And on Thursday she will be PENO (Public Enemy #1). The entire Administration should be ashamed if Ms. Sheehan is arrested.

    ITSALONGWAYTOGO when you don't know where you're going; you don't where you're going when you're lost...

    by Omen on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:39:44 AM PDT

    •  And now we know (4.00)
      the real reason behind the Patriot Act - to squelch dissent....
    •  Beg to differ... (none)
      Casey Sheehan didn't die defending our national security.

      He died in Iraq, which was not a national security threat.

      That is why his mother is rightfully holding vigil demanding answers and a word with the person who sent him there to be killed uselessly, for no legitimate purpose.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

      by Lestatdelc on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:39:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Pardon (none)
        I was attempting to use "Bush logic," which is difficult for anyone outside his administration to comprehend (including myself).

        By his reasoning, every soldier who has died in Iraq was fighting to keep our nation safe, because a safe Iraq means a safe America. I don't particularly agree with that reasoning, but it's what Bush uses and now he's saying this woman, the mother, is a threat to national security.

        In reality, Casey Sheehan died because of a combination of misinformation, arrogance, and pride (all from the Bush Administration). His mother wants Bush to admit this, but he'd rather have her arrested.

        ITSALONGWAYTOGO when you don't know where you're going; you don't where you're going when you're lost...

        by Omen on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:03:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Cindy Sheehan..will be here: (none)
    Cindy Sheehan..will be here:

    September 18 - 22
    Binghamton, NY

    A 5-night tribunal to articulate the legal, moral, and historical defense for civil resistance to this illegal war.

    CONFIRMED:

    Ray McGovern, Medea Benjamin, Camilo Mejia, Kathy Kelly, Jon Bonifaz, Cindy Sheehan, Jimmy Massey, Liz McAlliser, U.S. Rep. Hinchey, and others.

    NEEDED:

    A Thousand Jurors of Conscience.

    Find out More

  •  Oh, won't this make a lovely trial (none)
    "Excuse me, Mr. President, but could you kindly explain to the jury how an unarmed woman in a lawn chair, sitting roughly five miles from your house, is a THREAT to anybody's security, much less 'national' security.

    "And may I remind you, you are still under oath..."

  •  Unless (none)
    it was a voice out of the clear air, which I doubt, it was some specific person who made this statement.

    For example, some specific person who wants to make her supporters look silly, by making a statement that is not credible to the average American, but is believed.

    For example, some idiot who thinks making ShrubCo look silly really truly is a national security threat and actually has more arrest authority than a 6th grader doing crossing guard duty.

    Perhaps the nice woman in Texas will by and by give us more information.

  •  why (none)
    why not have 2000 or 3000 people go support her and see how easy it is to arrest them all.  There's got to be that many people who actually care with a relatively close distance.
  •  What a bunch of scaredy cats! (none)
    These guys are really alleging that national security is compromised by Cindy Sheehan?  Wow!  She must be really powerful.

    Isn't this the whole post 9/11 story?  Repubs so afraid of everything except their own overreaching that they can't discriminate between real threats and imaginary threats?

    Apparently I have made the unbelievably naive error of overestimating the intelligence of the American people.

    by Citizen Clark on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:48:41 AM PDT

  •  March On Crawford - Now (4.00)
    I'd like to see Jimmy Carter leading the line, all the way down the road.

    I disagree with others that say this shouldn't be an open protest. Let it lead up to the Sept 24th one.

    Safety in numberws. Solidarity.

    Who else can join?  Joe Wilson? John Conyers?

    This protest needs to be expanded, not contstrained.
    (IMO)

  •  The website linked before the fold doesn't (none)
    currently exist.
  •  This is one instance (none)
    where I'm not sure it matters if the arrest threat is true or not.  Rove uses this kind of red herring all the time.  Who calls him out on it?  No news organization I'm aware of.  The point here is to get Cindy all the publicity possible.  And if she's not arrested on Thursday, or any other day, what exactly is Bush going to do about her implacable presence there in Crawford?  The longer she stays the bigger the story grows...  and the more people will join her.

    One person can make a difference.  

  •  Why not ... (4.00)
    Stay away until she does get arrested (if she does), to mitigate the "unruly crowd" factor ... and THEN have tens of thousands show up in Crawford in reaction to her arrest?
  •  Tx David Swanson for getting the news out using DK (none)
    with the afterdowningstreet.org site down, relieved that you posted to DK and got the word out.  

    my blog Dying to Preserve the Lies "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Ghandi

    by dyingwarriors on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:54:46 AM PDT

  •  Well, thank goodenss George is taking action. (none)
    I haven't felt this threatened since Martha Stewart walked the streets a free woman.

    Where's JC?  We'll need some "Free Cindy" Ts.  Maybe a headline-style bumber sticker:  "Bush arrests KIA soldier's Mom!  The terrorists have won!"

    Honestly, these people are dispicable.

    I also like the fact the the threat is somehow cumulative.  She'll be a threat on Thursday, but she isn't now?  By Wednesday will she be, like, a 3/4 threat?  Idiots.

    There is nothing noble about voting based on who Jesus tells you to hate. ~ JamesB3

    by CJB on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:57:42 AM PDT

  •  Talk about irony (none)
    Bush recently said "Power is being the President."  And this is how he uses that power?  A-fucking-mazing.

    "Don't blame me, I voted for the smart guy."

    by frsbdg on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 11:58:31 AM PDT

  •  Wow.. an unarmed American mother (none)
    is a threat to national security?

    How pathetic have we fallen as a nation where our "leaders" stoop to this shit?

    Our nation is becoming (wrong tense?) a shameful joke.

    Is there a legal defense fund system set up online if/when she and her fellow Americans are arrested which we can be ready to contribute too?

    cheers,

    Mitch Gore

    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

    by Lestatdelc on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:00:09 PM PDT

  •  Large protests will likely backfire (none)
    My first instinct, too, is to go right away.  But I think that reaction plays right into Bush's hands.  I do believe the media will spin a large protest as a "threatening, escalating" situation.  I think everyone must try to not do exactly what the Admin is hoping we will do, arrive as "angry mobs" stalking the president of the United States.  I think the best time for protest is the moment she is arrested, to protest Bush's abuse of power, emphasize his cowardice, not let people forget that he is ARRESTING THE MOTHER OF A SON HE HAS EFFECTIVELY KILLED. Large-scale protests before that will undoubtedly backfire.  I really believe this.

    "They'll never catch me, man. 'Cause I'm f*cking innocent." - Bottle Rocket

    by The New Politeness on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:00:37 PM PDT

    •  Don't arrive as an angry mob. (none)
      Arrive as a rather large pool of press gathered to watch national security be protected by the arrest of a mother who's son gave his life so Halliburton can rule the middle east.

      Most people are idiots... But don't tell them. It'll spoil all the fun for those of us who aren't.

      by d3n4l1 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:07:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  one of the (none)
      great things about being a liberal is that someone will always question every decision. that's the best way to get it right.

      but at some point, we need to take action. we can't sit back on our heels because of the possibility that it could go wrong. we need to be decisive and do the best we can with what we've got.

      if this isn't a reason to protest, i don't know what is.

      •  Thoughtful action (none)
        Yeh, it's a reason to protest. But let's protest in a way that does not give BushCo the opportunity to hide "moles" in a large crowd of people who don't know one another. Let's not create an opportunity to declare that the crowd has "gotten out of hand" and move in to disperse them. Let's not create an opportunity for a few "moles" to start throwing rocks so the police can move in with tear gas and riot control. Let's not create an opportunity for untrained protestors to find out if they are able to stay "limp" under such circumstances. Let's not create an opportunity for Cindy Sheehan to be arrested and held for something other than sitting peacefully be the side of the road with a controlled small group of supporters and witnesses.

        If you want to protest, make a sign that says "Stand with Cindy Sheehan." Print up a bunch of flyers that explain what Cindy is doing and why. Identify a public location for your protest. Call the police department to make sure your protest will not be violating any laws. Invite a few friends to protest with you. Do it. Meet people. Help to connect netroots with grassroots. Act from the head rather than jerking from the knee.

        I used to live in the United States of America. Now I live in a homeland.

        by homeland observer on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:49:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  You are correct (none)
      A large protest at this critical time will
      almost certainly backfire and go just as that
      bunch of repug thugs plan.

      You are also correct in that the time to maount
      that huge protest is immediately after the arrest
      is made.

      People need to think this thing through.

      As things now stand Bush and gang have nothing with
      which to discredit this woman.

      But give them a huge crowd protesting a percieved
      or threatened arrest which has not happened, and
      they can actually turn that to their advantage.

      Support cindy and by all means if need we supply
      her with great legal counsel, but hold off on protest
      trips to Crawford until an arrest is made.

      Popeye

      I dream about waking up and finding out Bush has fell through his own Butthole and hung himself :)Popeye

      by eaglecries on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:25:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Unbelievable! (none)
    This hits the top of my list of most outrageous, amoral and ignorant things this administration has done.

    Un. Freaking. Believable.

  •  Waaaaaaaaaah! (none)
    'There's a mean mother out to get me.  Waaaaaaa!  Arrest that mean ole mother."

    Man, Bush needs to get a grip.  What a girlyman!

  •  Cindy said in an interview (none)
    that the local Crawford paper, the Iconoclast, has a reporter following her every move...

    Let's contact them and see if they know anything...

    e-mail: office@iconoclast-texas.com
    telephone: (all departments): (254) 675-3336 or toll-free: 1-800-241-5504
    fax: (254) 675-4090
    web newspaper: iconoclast-texas.com

    I'm not going anywhere. I'm standing up, which is how one speaks in opposition in a civilized world. - Ainsley Hayes

    by jillian on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:04:22 PM PDT

  •  Stop the Presses!!! (none)
    We need to rally and get all the press we can there to cover the arrest!!  "A risk to national security."  Bull - Fucking Shit! (per my previous now hidden posts about Armondo, I'm pretty fiesty lately. :) )  Innocent until proven guilty.  Wouldn't it be false arrest if they didn't have probable cause?  Couldn't she sue for that, get the officers/unit in trouble if it didn't fly (like pigs!)?  

    Do we have any lawyers that we can send to be on hand for her too?  This "national security risk" bullshit with this administration using it to silence dissent is... nuts.  Isn't that a violation of her constitutional rights?  

    Most people are idiots... But don't tell them. It'll spoil all the fun for those of us who aren't.

    by d3n4l1 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:05:28 PM PDT

  •  New Terror Alert Level (none)
    Apparently, the Holy Foamin' Chimperor has created a new alert level:

    Alert Level Cindy: The expression of authentic patriotism, dignity, and democratic rights of free speech are imminent. Resistance is futile.

    We will not rest until Osama bin Laden Cindy Sheehan is apprehended!

    God save us all.

    "I am a patriot, and I love my country because my country is all I know."

    by Aragorn for America on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:08:29 PM PDT

  •  We need more (none)
    More people need to show up.. thousands if possible!  Get the media there to do their jobs!

    Congress.org http://www.congress.org - Use It to contact your local, state and national politicians and the media.

    http://www.securingamerica.com/

    by kevin22262 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:09:11 PM PDT

    •  I Agree (none)
      I am stuck in Florida, but what this seeming threat of arrest needs is a critical mass of people that makes a simple arrest look difficult - like a confrontation.  It would transform a political pain in the neck into a massive confrontation between the government/war PR machine and genuinely concerned citizens.  This could be the start of the type of civil disobedience this war has needed - and it would get press attention because it is already getting press attention.  

      People should go.

      People should go.

      People should go.

      Too bad colleges aren't in right now.

  •  "Vacation for the Troops?" (none)
    Until there is a vacation for our troops, there should be no vacation for Bush!

    Proposed Frame/Talking Points:

    Until our devoted men and women in uniform get a vacation, how dare the Commander in Chief take off to his vacation home!!

  •  Cindy to call Randi (none)
    In her third hour.

    From the Randi Rhodes website
    http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/

  •  Don't worry Cindy! (none)
    Jails not all that bad.  It's really just like summer camp... only with a bunch of wierdos.

    Most people are idiots... But don't tell them. It'll spoil all the fun for those of us who aren't.

    by d3n4l1 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:10:54 PM PDT

  •  The first of political prisoners. (none)
    This would be the beginning.  We may have had some people arrested for suspicion of terror, but First Ammendment?  They don't see abortion protestors or the circus outside Terry Schiavos hospice a threat to the people inside, but a mom on the side of a lonely Texas road?  They start locking up moms, they are already losing.
  •  Here's My Take On... (4.00)
    ...the possibility (probability) of Cindy being arrested for wanting to speak personally with our President.

    I did some research on our friends over at Free Republic (sanitized my computer after), and among the more generous comments include statements such as (paraphased) "a woman who can't let go of her son,"  "Can't get past her son's death," "Being used as a tool by the liberal media,"  "Wants to make a name for herself,"  "using her son's death for personal gain," yada, yada, yada.

    Let's state (for the sake of appeasing the Freepers) this was all true, and Cindy was all this and worse.  Bush still has the power to make his entire budding PR nightmare go away, make Cindy's whole campaign collapse, and show himself as a "man of the people."  How?

    The pres could simply drive out to where Cindy is camped in a dusty pickup truck wearing jeans, t-shirt and muddy boots.  He would get out, approach Cindy carrying a jug of lemonade and two cups.  He'd invite her to sit together in the grass under some shade, within view of the news reporters and cameras but out of earshot.  Let the reporters see him pouring Cindy some lemonade and listen to her talk, wearing a serious but sympathetic look.  Nod occasionally, then be seen talking earnestly with her.  After a max of 30 minutes get up, walk back with her and in earshot of the reporters thank her for listening to him. Maybe even apologize for the effort she needed to go through to meet him, with a joke against "presidental bubble" or some such crap.  

    If bush did this, Cindy could never again get media coverage to bash bush.  It would essentially cost bush nothing but a hour of his time, and make his ratings soar among the group of Americans who still desperatly want to belive in him.  

    But bush will not, and in refusing this simple action show himself for the arrogant, shallow, weak little bully and coward he really is.  

    •  He wouldn't, but could the First Lady? (none)
      The perception would be that they're accommodating her request, from one mom to another mom. They're media savvy enough to try something like that for the emotional value.

      I almost want your post to disappear because you're absolutely right- Bush coming with a cold drink would be the end. Takes 10 minutes to do, with months of political value coming out of it. Ugh.

    •  Exactly (4.00)
      Exactly!

      But Bush is a coke-addled little rich boy who never even learned the most basic lessons of civility. Doing the sensible, not to mention kind and humane, thing is just not his style.

      < shudder > What kind of monster is he, anyway?

    •  Yeah, but... (none)
      I agree with all that, and wish that Bush would do exactly what you say.

      On the other hand, any time any citizen out of our 380 million people has a gripe with the President, they can just camp out on his doorstep and the President should come out and have tea?  Doesn't seem realistic to me.  

      I think Cindy has an excellent point and her questions need to be answered.  A simple press release would do.

      But the truth of the matter is, Bush cannot answer her because he cannot give her a truthful answer.  Any answer he gives would be a lie and would put borders and frames around our involvement in Iraq and once those borders were broken all of us would come down on him.  

      We're there for WMD's?  Well, there aren't any WMD's so let's get the hell out and quit killing people and getting ourselves killed.  Not leaving?  Liar!

      The truth is that we're there to promot Bush's corporate buddy's interests and to test the waters on Global Imperialism.  Can't very well own up to that, can he?

      •  asdf (none)
        On the other hand, any time any citizen out of our 380 million people has a gripe with the President, they can just camp out on his doorstep and the President should come out and have tea?  Doesn't seem realistic to me.

        I'm sure there are plenty of unhappy people pleading their individual cases everyday.  However, this is the one that has gained traction, which tells me it's not just an individual case.  This mother is speaking for others who have lost loved ones in the war, as well as those of us who have resisted this violence all along.  

    •  Bush isn't Clinton, Reagan, Ike, or JFK (none)
      Those 4 could pull that off.  Even LBJ would be able to and he would be more transparent about it.

      But Bush lacks charm and he most certainly lacks class and true self-confidence.  His "what passes for self-confidence" requires him to be isolated from anything else that might cause his "resolve" to waver.  And it wouldn't take much.

  •  Big grain of salt... (none)
    If a person five miles from the President is considered a threat,then most of DC should be arrested anytime Bush is at the White House since they would be violating the 5-mile rule.
  •  bad link? (none)
      The meetwithcindy.org link seems bad.

    Congress.org http://www.congress.org - Use It to contact your local, state and national politicians and the media.

    http://www.securingamerica.com/

    by kevin22262 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:20:19 PM PDT

    •  Something really stinks people! (none)
      I signed up at that website this morning with no problems. I am home for lunch and recieved an email with a password and links to go to site. None of those links are working. I emailed back and received they could not find that address. Someone needs to find out what is going on with that site. Anyone in contact with Cindy and CO. needs to know it has disappeared. Maybe I have too much tinfoil on and this may just be a glitch with a new site but it is creeping me out. Maybe they want thousands of people to show up so they can claim national security risk. I don't know but this is too weird.

      The more understanding one posesses, the less there is to say and the more there is to do.

      by Alohaleezy on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:00:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  there's a post upthread (none)
        looking for donors to expand bandwidth to the site. I couldn't reach it at all when I tried the link. Probably blew past their quota bigtime.

        "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." - Mark Twain

        by musicsleuth on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:19:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Help get an Okie to Crawford (none)
    This is an email I've sent to friends and my local listservs:

    Good folks,

    I am goin' to Crawford to be with Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq who is outside Bush's ranch demanding an audience with him. (It's been all over the news, but for more background, see www.codepink4peace.org) She's reportedly "scheduled" to be arrested on Thursday, so maybe I will be too -- Guilt by Association.

    I am "without means", and fortunately this gives me the freedom to make this trip, but unfortunately not much in the way of resources to undertake it, so if you would like to help me out, your donations will help with gas, food (unless I decide to join the hunger strike) and maybe even bail!

    If you are supportive, and can afford it, please toss a few coins in my Paypal hat:

    https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=gypsyresort%40yahoo%2ecom&item_na me=Re%20Collection%20support&no_shipping=1&cn=Comments&tax=0&currency_code=USD&c harset=UTF%2d8&charset=UTF%2d8

    That link may break; if it does, go to http://www.gypsyresort.com/re and look for the "donations" link under "Welcome" near the top.  

    While in Crawford, I will report for www.okimc.org, and other alternative news sources, and will take pics and share what I get newswise when I have internet access.

    Most of you getting this know me and know of my activism and community work. But for the rest of you, here is some of my contributions to local progressive causes, as way of bona fides for my appeal:

    Web sites created/maintained for:
    OK Greens, Oklahoma Code Pink, Herland, Green Commons, Green Bloggers, Oklahoma Committee for Conscientious Objectors, Oklahoma Indymedia, Oklahoma Progressive Network (pending), Peace House

    Organizing work for: OCCO, OK Greens, Oklahoma Progressive Network, Code Pink

    If there is money left when I return, it will go to help the above causes and sites.

    And if you can't send $, please send moral support! I'll probably need it. Thanks!

    Serena Blaiz
    http://www.gypsyresort.com/re

    In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.
             ~George Orwell

    by outragemeter on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:24:39 PM PDT

  •  Wait and see (none)
    Yeah, I don't really believe this.  Sure, I'll be storming the castle if it is true, but I have a hard time believing that our government is going to arrest the mother of a dead soldier in broad daylight for nothing, and that if they wanted to they would find police officers willing to arrest her.

    I just don't think that the Bush administration is this stupid.  But, then again, they've proven me wrong for thinking they were smart before.

    •  IT IS TRUE, damn it (none)
      Thom Hartmann's show engineer called Cindy right back up (she was on his FIRST show live in the morning) after this was posted and she confirmed that she is SWAMPED but she is OK right now and will appear LIVE on Thom Hartmann's show 12 PM EST (see thomhartmann.com and listen live to the White Rose Society link).

      THANK YOU.

  •  First Impressions.... (none)
    White House reminds media about 2004 meeting to justify why Bush won't come out...

    During an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer Sunday afternoon, Sheehan admitted that she had met with the president shortly after her son died.

    Sheehan was among about 15 other families of soldiers killed in Iraq who were invited to meet with Bush in June 2004 near Seattle, Washington.

    According to Sheehan, Bush bounced into the private meeting in a jovial mood, as though he was attending a party and said: "Now, who are we honoring today...?" as he entered the room, signifying that he didn't even know who he was about to meet.

    The meeting with Bush occurred two months after her son Casey was killed in Sadr City on April 4, 2004.

    "I was still in shock then," Sheehan said. "Now, I'm angry. I want the troops home."

    Sheehan said she plans to continue her vigil until she gets to talk to Bush. "I'll follow him to D.C.," she said.

    GOP: Invading personal privacy ©¿©¬ and proud of it!

    by PBen on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:25:24 PM PDT

  •  What is she demanding, besides meet w. Chimpy? (none)
    I hope she has a very simple demand that he do something that anyone can do, like watch ONE video.

    If all she wants is to meet with him, he could difuse this easily by meeting with her. They'd get a boost from it among some people.

    Every [weapon] signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed. - Dwight D. Eisenhower

    by racerx on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:33:06 PM PDT

  •  Randi talks to Cindy Sheehan in the third hour. (none)
    Randi talks to Cindy Sheehan in the third hour.  Cindy will be calling in from her tent.  She is camped near President Bush's Crawford, Texas ranch.  Ms. Sheehan has vowed to camp out on the spot until Mr. Bush agrees to meet with her, even if it means spending all of August under a broiling sun by the dusty road (NYTimes.com).

    If you are in Texas, and can take the time away from work and family go support Cindy.  
    Map to Crawford for Austin, TX 1600 KOKE listeners : http://maps.google.com/maps?spn=1.543027,2.536194&saddr=Pflugerville,+Texas&daddr=crawford,+ tx&hl=en
    Map to Crawford for Dallas, TX 910 KXEB listeners : http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=32.147711,-97.097168&spn=1.595008,2.536194&saddr=Dallas,+Texa s&daddr=crawford,+tx&hl=en

    •  Standby.... (none)
      Randi's show started today with serious technical difficulties...so they are playing reruns in the meantime and trying to get her back up live.

      Hopefully, she'll be on the air live soon....in time for Cindy's phone call!

  •  Non-Violent Resistance! (none)
    If they do come to make arrests Cindy and all the others at Camp Casey must make them carry/drag the protesters away in accordance with the ideals of non-violent resistance.

    If this disgusting threat of arrest actually happens stick a fork in Bush, he's done.

    •  All it takes is one mole (4.00)
      All it takes is one mole -- otherwise known as an agent provocateur -- to perform an illegal act that will legitimize harsh "crowd control" techniques. It requires some training to stay "limp" when such techniques are used. This is why large-scale events (such as the planned September march) are carefully planned and include participation by individuals who know how to recognize and neutralize agent provocateurs. The way this "advance warning" has been given - right after Cindy suggested on the air that more people come to Crawford - makes me very uneasy. I think it would be far better to organize sympathetic events in other places and wait for this "threat" to play itself out.

      If they are determined to arrest Cindy, a large crowd will not keep that from happening. It would provide greater grounds for charging and holding her.

      I used to live in the United States of America. Now I live in a homeland.

      by homeland observer on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:31:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If this is the case, then we are paralyzed forever (none)
        why should anyone do anything. If we do this, then they'll undercut us by doing that and if we do that they'll undercut us by doing this. It's a perpetual lose/lose situation. And it means that they have their feet on our throats.

        When Jesus said love your enemies, I'm pretty sure he meant don't kill them.

        by donailin on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 06:04:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Cindy... (none)
    ...just said on Ed Schultz's show that a Texas legislator called and basically threatened her with arrest on Thursday. She didn't know the guy's name, but I'm sure someone can look it up! The Texas Lege's rep for Crawford.

    The truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing the matter with that. Except it ain't so. --Twain

    by MichaelPH on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:44:52 PM PDT

  •  She won't be arrested (4.00)
    That's just stupid, not even Rove would do something like this.  Cindy is on the RWCM already, so arresting her would look mean, and Rove knows this.  

    IMO, this is an attempt by Rove to set the stage for Bush talking to her.  He wants Cindy's supporters to blabber to the media about this, complaining that "the President is going to arrest her!"  Then the media personalities all sneer and roll their eyes, "see how paranoid and unfair these liberals are?  They don't even give Bush a chance!"

    Then after the arrest has been sufficiently hyped, Bush takes a time out from his brush-clearing and drives his pick-up over to Cindy, steps out in full cowboy regalia, and offers to have her in to the ranch for a cup of coffee and a chat.  The RWCM is shocked, SHOCKED at what a gentleman Bush is compared to the rude protesters.  

    Let's not do Bush's work for him.  Let's not accuse Bush of arresting her until she's arrested.  

    "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize." -James Madison

    by Subterranean on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 12:51:22 PM PDT

    •  That actually sounds pretty plausible n/t (none)
    •  Dont over react is the right strategy (none)
      This could all be a ploy by Rove. So, until Cindy actually gets arrested there should be no major action. If it happens then there could be more organized protests against her detention.

      It is best that the focus should be on the War Victims and their message that the Iraq debacle policy is not supporting the troops but continuing to endanger them.

    •  I should know (none)
      but the meaning escapes me right now.

      RWCM stands for what?

    •  "Don't try to market in August" (none)
      I am reminded of the WH Chief of Staff's comments (Andy Card) in the fall of 2002, declaring that they didn't want to begin dialogue on the merits of going to war with Iraq in August because `August is not a good time to begin a marketing campaign."  (I may be paraphrasing slightly here).

      Maybe the WH can't market war in August, but it looks like Cindy Sheehan is doing a fine job of marketing peace in August.  I just checked Google News and there are nearly 600 stories listed on U.S. and foreign news websites, nearly all of them sympathetic to her cause if one can judge by headlines alone.

      Keep up the good work, Cindy!

    •  That's right (none)
      They'll just drive on by... maybe GW will wave.
  •  The URL is not working? (none)
    "Welcome to Chun." -- is all that appears.

    It looks like the Domain is new, maybe it's propagating still.

    Anyone know of another source for the "Arrest" story.

    •  It's down due to Traffic - Update (none)
      "Sorry! We're working on it!

      Access to the "Meet with Cindy" website is temporarily unavailable due to excessive traffic. The site will be accessible in a very short time. "

  •  Daily Kos on CNN! - video (wmv) (none)
    Cindy Sheehan's arrest on Thurs. not mentioned on CNN even though they referred to a post on Daily Kos discussing her.

    download the video here

  •  Rove Not a Threat to National Security; Mom IS (4.00)
    Cindy Sheehan poses such a threat to the Bush administration's tissue of lies that she gets treated like Joe Wilson:  thrown to the dawgs.

    While actual traitors Rove and Libby collect their paychecks at taxpayer expense.  Charming, just charming.

  •  Everyone should go there now (none)
    If you can get down there, take camping equipment, take video cameras, take laptops, cell phones, hot weather survival kit.This has tipping point written all over it. Let's see the AWOL 'war' president have a mother of a KIA soldier arrested and dragged away by the oh so brave police. Or make a stand, take it to his front doorstep, if you go to one demo ever, make it this.
    •  McGoohan is absolutely right (none)
      We need people down there by thursday and friday.  We should make sure that all those attending this big-money fundraiser sees just how much anger there is over the war.  But any demonstration has to be JUST about the war.  None of the ANSWER nonsense - that's for another day.  Just a big group of Americans letting the powerful know that we're here and we're against IT.  
      Not that any of these fat cats are going to change their mind about what they're doing, but it might plant a few seeds of doubt.
      I might be able to juggle my schedule so I can be there by Thursday afternoon.  My wife would be pissed, but she'll get over it.
  •  CORRECTION: Cindy Sheehan arrest only speculation (3.75)
    CODEPINK was just able to get through to Cindy and Diane Wilson in Crawford, and there was a miscommunication---the notion that Cindy and others would be arrested was only conjecture by a state representative, not any law enforcement official.  Bush's motorcade will be driving down the road where Cindy is camped out en route to a fundraiser Thursday, and the representative told protesters that he "imagined" they would be arrested as a national security threat.  

    meetwithcindy.org has updates, but the site is down--I e-mailed David Swanson on this.  In the meantime, CODEPINK has ways you can show your solidarity.      

    Politik"Orthodoxy is unconsciousness." -Orwell

    by heatherb on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:58:11 PM PDT

  •  To Crawford! (none)
    It would be the anti-war equivalent of all those nuts outside the Schiavo hospice.  We'll bring 1800 drums!  
    And I can sew some costumes! And I'll write the songs!  Let's put on a SHOW!
    •  Dignified presence (none)
      Why match the lunacy of the nutcases outside the hospice?  I'd much prefer that progressive activists follow the dignified models of the suffragists and the Selma marchers, etc.   That will result in the success we're after - changing minds.
  •  She has more balls than Bush! (none)
    And his entire staff!
  •  Lets Show Our Support Nationwide (none)
    I just placed a large yellow sign in my yard stating "I support you Cindy Sheehan. You deserve the answers to your questions." It would be great to see a movement across the nation doing the same thing on whatever color board you choose..We need our nation to be united again. Maybe this could be that moment. Answering Cindy Sheehan's questions about the death of her son is the civil thing to do.  I live in Portland, OR....
  •  Arrest story is SPECULATION (none)
    Says another thread based on information from Code Pink.

    Apparently it was "conjecture" by a state legislator .

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/8/163244/0014

    •  If it's conjecture, it's quite consistent (none)
      with what Cindy Sheehan said on the radio last night, that the Secret Service had warned her that, if she stayed at Camp Casey, she might be hit by a car.

      A series of such "conjectures" are for the purpose of intimidation.

  •  Cindy Sheehan is on the front page of Google News (none)
    Google News is a very good indicator how much the press is paying attention to a story.  Right now, stories on Cindy Sheehan are in the top U.S. spot on Google News (the top two stories overall were Iranian nukes and Peter Jennings' death).

    U.S.  »

    Soldier's mother keeps protest vigil at Bush ranch
    People's Daily Online - 15 hours ago
    The mother of an American soldier killed in Iraq, Sheehan, 48, of Vacaville, Calif., is camping near US president's ranch in Crawford, Texas. She's set up on a narrow strip of land between the hardtop of Prairie Chapel Road and a drainage ditch. ...
    Every Mother's Son PeaceJournalism.com
    Mr President, there's someone waiting, and waiting, to see you Sydney Morning Herald (subscription)
    New York Times - Chicago Sun-Times - Guardian Unlimited - Lone Star Iconoclast - all 579 related »

    http://news.google.com/

  •  Spartacus (none)
    What about local protests all over the country in support of Cindy.

    Everyone's sign says:

    I AM CINDY SHEEHAN!

  •  Who is going? (none)
    I'm going and Deepintheheartoftexas is going, who else?
    •  Still going (none)
      I've heard bucket loads of conjecture from these people that immediately became the real thing whenever they were sure the coast was clear.  Nobody will show because it was just speculation and then they will arrest this woman because everybody thought it was only conjecture!  Been there done that with these guys already!  
    •  I am going (none)
      As things stand now, I will be there Thursday.

      Oh well, I wasn't using that civil liberty anyway.

      by think2004 on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 02:56:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  RE (none)
      I think hundreds of people descending on Crawford and standing side by side with Mrs. Sheehan will only create exactly a situation that will justify removing her.  

      The last thing Cindy Sheehan, who is smart, articulate and brave, is to be lumped in with the some of the more outrageous elements within the anti-war movement.  

      Not saying you are one of those people - just hate for her powerful message to be drowned out by too many other voices.

      ... now watch this drive.

      by jg on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 05:02:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm going Saturday. n/t (none)
  •  It appears (none)
    Randi Rhodes is sick or something and she has a Best of all the day..I guess. :(
  •  Let's try not to overreact (none)
    and the lefties need to stay home for the time being. She's obviously not going to be arrested any time soon--and who knows who started that rumor and for what reason.

    I think Cindy is doing fine all by herself. Perhaps some other Gold Star mothers will join her? But the last thing the press needs to see is a bunch of rabid, loony war protestors (speaking as one myself, of course.)

    Time to chill, people!

  •  And Laura? (none)
    Condi is going to be at the "ranch" Thursday? Does thay mean the "Missus" will not be there?
  •  That mother-fucking cocksucker! (none)
    THIS is how Bush treats a grieving mother of a dead soldier, when she's not impeding how he does business or is nowhere near his house?

    "National security concerns"?! Oooooooh.

    This is truly and absolutely the beginning of the end for him. I agree, the publicity will be great for our cause and Cindy's but that's easy for us to say since we're not the ones who'll be disrespected in public.

    I'd love to be the WH webmaster right about now and reading through the hate mail that must be POURING into the website right now.

    Looks like I may be blogging about nothing but this for the next week.

    I never thought that I could possibly hate George Bush more than I did before reading this but here I go...

    JP
    http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com/2005/08/fahrenheit-87.html

    Defending bad taste and liberalism since 2005.

    by jurassicpork on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 03:03:03 PM PDT

  •  The Title here should be corrected (none)
    It's being picked up by BuzzFlash and other outlets and it's not factual.

    "
    Cindy Sheehan to Be Arrested Thursday
    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/8/124941/6758"

  •  wqhat about the drudge report story (none)
    that CIndy changed her story about Bush? did anyone read this?
    any comments or refutation to this?
    •  There's already a diary on this, mmkay (none)
      And it's absolute B.S., she tried to be polite then, she was in shock having lost her son, and now she's not afraid to stand up and speak the truth

      So just stop rehashing it okay you're not impressing anybody

  •  CINDY IS ON AAR RIGHT NOW *LIVE* (none / 0) (none)
    CINDY IS ON AAR RIGHT NOW LIVE (none / 0)

    WILL BE TAKING CALLS!

    LISTEN LIVE

    AIRAMERICARADIO.COM

  •  I, for one, hope it comes to the arrest of Cindy. (none)
    And dammit, everyone who can be there ought to be, to get arrested right along with her. Imagine the headlines:

    "Bush refuses to meet Mother of Soldier who died in Iraq, Mother arrested at Crawford Ranch"

    The tide is turning. Republicans, especially those patriotic-stand-by-the-troops supporters are no longer fooled by this war. Imagine their outrage at that kind of headline while the fool is on vacation, Iraq is burning, and our guys are still fighting and dying in a fierce war with no end in sight.

    God Bless Cindy. She may singlehandedly be the one to touch the hardened support-Bush-at-all-costs republicans.

    When Jesus said love your enemies, I'm pretty sure he meant don't kill them.

    by donailin on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 05:36:44 PM PDT

    •  My mom has always said (none)
      that the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. Maybe on Thursday we'll see if she's right.

      We'll rise above the scarlet tide That trickles down through the mountain And separates the widow from the bride --Elvis Costello

      by Bob Quixote on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 06:27:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ride Clearinghouse (none)
    Has anyone set up a site for a ride clearinghouse?
    That would be very helpful.
  •  Yeah, right. Yeah fucking right. (none)
    Look, I respect her for what she's doing, but please, stop with the histrionics already.

    I mean, yesterday she was going to be killed by the Secret Service.

    Uh huh.

    And now she's going to be arrested as a threat to National Security.

    Uh huh.

    It makes her look like a wackjob.

  •  If there are arrests (none)
    then I guess the next thing we will hear is that Cindy and crew are enemy combatants or 'lone-wolf terrorists' and will be sent to Gitmo to find out what they know.

    Swayin to the rhythm of the new world order and Count the bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums - A Perfect Circle

    by Darth Codis on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 07:38:22 PM PDT

  •  The DU activist corps (none)
    ...has a thread by which you can send postcrads to Crawford Peace House at the address below:

    Cindy Sheehan
    c/o Crawford Peace House
    9142 5th Street
    Crawford, TX 76638-3037

    Monetary contributions would be especially welcome.

    JP
    http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com

    Defending bad taste and liberalism since 2005.

    by jurassicpork on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 10:26:32 PM PDT

  •  Protest Panties (none)
    I'll donate my percentage of every pair of The Only Bush I Trust Is My Own panties panties sold to Cindy/the Crawford Peace House if you reference this thread in the order comments section!

    (And if you're bold enough to go to Crawford & send me a photo of yourself flashing the ranch in a pair, you get a second pair of your choice free!)

  •  The Right Wing (none)
    I just got done watching the O'Lielly Factor. Was sickened by what I saw with Michelle Malkin as guest to discuss Cindy and he called her treasonous! She is a very brave woman and she is not looking for limelight, she is wanting to ask the questions that none of us have answers to. I think that there should be a helluva lot more families out there with her demanding answers..They deserve the truth as we all do...
  •  www.meetwithcindy.com (none)
    FYI:

    When I click meetwithcindy.org I get a single, "Welcome to Chun." page. (nothing else, might be hacked)

    When I click http://www.meetwithcindy.com I get through to her page

  •  Web Cam In Crawford ? (none)
    I have a alternative newsletter I put out every day..and many have asked as someone did here on Kos..Where is the webcam ? I did a google search and no mention of one in Crawford..700 + are there now and CSpan or a webcam ought to be ther too..Marie talkin56@hotmail.com
  •  Right now might not be the right time to say this (none)
    But Cindy Sheehan is HOT. I just gotta say that.
pontificator, Marisacat, enaud, Phlip, Alumbrados, johnyc, MichaelPH, steveb, jillian, LAS, ROGNM, Jay, Jsea, Irfo, dabize, gogol, Tulip, moon in the house of moe, sharronmar, tikkun, allenjj, Nina Katarina, Bob Love, doug r, donna in evanston, shumard, Victor, brandonp, lysias, eSolutions, rhubarb, frsbdg, hypnyx, figdish, americanforliberty, frisco, lawnorder, Liberalpalooza, Sandia Blanca, musicsleuth, freespeech, redtravelmaster, Ruth in OR, strengthANDwisdom, tlh lib, mlafleur, KB, super simian, landrew, daisy democrat, guyute16, understandinglife, saint, kriser, dyingwarriors, Kraken, Janie, PsiFighter37, Prog Grrl 68, hillaryk, redpeter, Glic, buckhorn okie, vmibran, ides, michelle, hrh, allysonsta, oslo, sgilman, amanuensis, dqueue, jigsaw68, EdwardsRaysOfSunshine, Little Brother, hiley, ctsteve, Jesterfox, Gonzophile, lirtydies, antirove, bejammin075, Alohaleezy, Pachacutec, kosophile, CapnCanuck, 21stCenturyHippy, jhwygirl, hopesprings, dejavu, Barbara Morrill, Moody Loner, BurnetO, mwk, TexDem, f furney, crkrjx, TXsharon, pilotweed, lindaw, MGH, sba, duncanidaho, smash, Damnit Janet, eastindy, Caldonia, texasmom, BMarshall, sidv60, GN1927, joan reports, HollywoodOz, rlharry, DriftawayNH, AnthonySF, BWasikIUgrad, Street Kid, BenjF, seaside, Sam Loomis, Burton Halli, ybruti, Sembtex, merryelvis, NewAmerica, retired, OrangeClouds115, DrReason, Marianne Benz, JenDem, DrewDown, jgruber, AaronBa, rolet, califdweller, memophage, MichDeb, leolabeth, lavaughn, Sherlock Google, cantwait08, Bluesee, redstatewoes, Tarindel, 3goldens, TxTiger, Treg, PDiddie, patrioticliberal, DanielMN, 1seeker, tolerant, irate, JoMo DemKim, Closet VB Coder, ZappoDave, sbaecker, myeye, juliesie, volballplr, Simpletonian, oregonhag, NeuvoLiberal, dansk47, Jimmy G, SaraBeth, jorndorff, northofboston, perky mcjuggs, dunderhead, ab initio, Overseas, Political Politician, mathyoo, Prison4Bushco, flicknut, Caleb G, Sharon Jumper, calebfaux, Charleslives, sendel42

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site