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Cindy Sheehan met with Howard Dean last Saturday.

Then she showed up at a Progressive Democrats of America conference on Sunday and recounted what had happened at the meeting.  Dean, she said, had showed her his plan to build the Democratic Party, which included a long platform of issues.  That list did not acknowledge the existence of the war.

Cindy said she asked Dean whether the war would be part of the agenda.  He replied, she said, that he'd like it to be but couldn't figure out how, because it was such a hard question.  "Hire me," Cindy said she'd told him, "because I don't think it's hard!"

Now Dean has released a statement bragging about the fact that he met with Cindy and suggesting that people should meaninglessly "support her" whether or not they support the war.

Does Dean have any idea what the most pressing concern of most Democrats is and which position they take on it?  If so, is he experiencing any neurological problems?  Is he just drunk?  Can we get a Congressional investigation?

Originally posted to David Swanson on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 07:42 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  He is not our Dean anymore. (none)
    He is trying to craft a message to appeal to all.
    We know what happens when Democrats do that.
    We lose elections.
    •  Exactly (none)
      But why do we know this so well, while Dean and half the Dems in Congress seem oblivious?

      http://www.davidswanson.org

      by David Swanson on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 07:46:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They have gotten mired in the web of (none)
        the DLC and the non-progressive wing of the Democratic party.  They are the old-timers with all the power.  They want the same old message.
        If they win, we will keep losing elections forever. I think it would have been cool to form our own party after the 2004 debacle.  I think that was a possibility, but when Howard Dean backed got the position as Chairman, we all had hope he would bring the progressive message. He is only one man, and I still have hope.

         

        •  fact (3.00)
          The fact is that there is no proof that a progressive message with propell the Democratic party to great electoral wins on a nationwide campaign.

          It may, or may not.  It's a crap shoot.

          The fact that Bush's numbers are down does not change the fact that Democrats numbers are just as lower or often lower.  

          People don't like Bush, but there isn't much of a hope in the Democratic party if you are progressive and anti-war.

          The fact that the presidential candidate from 2004 - a veteran and an anti-war protestor both - has voted for the war a dozen times combined with the fact that a women and avowed liberal who is the #1 name for 2008 has the same voting record goes to show you that the party is dead to anti-war voters.

          Hope is gone.

          •  You may be right (none)
            but the fact is the same old Democratic message is not working.  That would lead us to think that we need to try something new.  Take a risk.
            That is what the Republicans did and they have been winning ever since. Somehow our party wimps out along the way and we end up with no message, no agenda.  It has go to change.
    •  What do you mean by "our"? (none)
      Who is this "our" of which you write?

      government policies have real consequences in people's lives

      by Debby on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 10:22:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wise move on Dean's part (4.00)
    Sorta kills the Cindy is a tool of the Democrats charge, doesn't it?

    The revolution starts now--in your own back yard, in your own home town

    by TarheelDem on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 07:46:22 AM PDT

  •  Link Please... (none)
    You only have a link to the Dean statement.

    How about a link to the Cindy Sheehan statement?

    Thanks,  RMD

    The CHICKEN-hawk Bushiter's Iraq War- 1268 Dead, about 25K Medivacs and 9000 Maimed... Fought the Bushiter Way... Wasting other people's money and lives.

    by RedMeatDem on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 07:46:30 AM PDT

  •  The Iraq thing (4.00)
    I do not think it is fair to rope all Democratic members into one way of thinking on this one. The multitude of opinions on this one are so diverse, the considerations so vast, that to be single-minded about it would be downright Republican.

    I think every candidate should have a position on Iraq. I don't see how you can make one for the entire party.

    Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote. ~George Jean Nathan

    by VirginiaBelle on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 07:46:38 AM PDT

    •  Well (4.00)
      here's one shared by the majority of Americans and a strong majority of Democrats, not to mention a huge majority of disaffected nonvoters:

      Get the Hell Out!  Now!

      http://www.davidswanson.org

      by David Swanson on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 07:49:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  really? (none)
        Poll:
        "From what you have seen or heard about the situation in Iraq, what should the United States do now? Should the U.S. increase the number of U.S. troops in Iraq, keep the same number of U.S. troops in Iraq as there are now, or decrease the number of U.S. troops in Iraq, or remove all its troops from Iraq?"

        All adults
        Increase: 10%
        Keep the same: 26%
        Decrease: 27%
        Remove all: 32%

        Among Democrats
        Increase: 8%
        Keep the same: 15%
        Decrease: 29%
        Remove all: 45%

        •  Yep. (4.00)
          59% of all Americans want troops to either leave or their numbers be reduced. These numbers for Democrats are at 74%. Remind me what Kerry's and Democratic party's stand was? Oh, we'll increase number of troops.
          •  A minority of all Americans... (none)
            and just Democrats agree with the diarist that we should: "Get the Hell Out!  Now!", despite his statements to the contrary.

            "I was so easy to defeat, I was so easy to control, I didn't even know there was a war."

            by RonV on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:17:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  At the time, that made sense (and may still) (3.33)
            If there is a way to use a temporary increase in troop strength to quell insurrections and stabilize things in order to speed our ultimate departure, we should consider it.

            Hell, this all got bungled because we went in with too few troops in the first place.

            •  It made about as much (4.00)
              sense as Democrats voting for this ill-advised war. All it did was take Iraq off the table at the time when Iraq war wasn't very popular. There was no way to temporarily increase US troop strength then and there is none now.
          •  Kerry never said (none)
            he was going to send more American troops. He said he was going to find ways to convince our allies to send more help.
        •  not represented (none)
          It's sad that these people 1/3 of the country - have no representation in Congress.

          Where is the voice saying "remove all troops right now, today" from the Senate floor, or from the House podium?

          3/4 of Democrats want some decrease in troop levels, yet where is their voice?

          Sad.  The Democratic party is a failure.

    •  policy (4.00)
      The Democratic party can adopt a platform of opposing "pre-emptive" war. They can also adopt a platform of requiring Congress to declare war (normally this would be redundant since it's in the Constitution, but not under this administration). They could also adopt a policy of focusing our resources on fighting terrorism and not distracting ourselves with meaningless unprovoked wars. Are these radical concepts? Sheesh.

      Bring 'em home. Now.

      Drinking Liberally Princeton, NJ

      by jmelli on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 07:53:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  so what (4.00)
        They can also adopt a platform of requiring Congress to declare
        The fact is that is usless unless you have a responsibile Congress.

        Congress still to this day with support from Democrats continues to authorize the war, both first implicitly, and then explicitly.  And then again and again and again by funding and continuing support.

        There is no offical mechanism to declare war.  There isn't a Congressional form.

        This is what Democrats in the Senate and House passed in October 2002:

        "The president is authorized to use the armed forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to  (1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq, and (2) enforce all relevant United Nation Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq."

        Complete abdication of their responsibility.

        There were enough republican defectors that if every Democrat voted against the war it would have been defeated.

        http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0819-02.htm

        This sums it up perfectly.

  •  Actually (none)

       Cindy meeting with Dean will only reinforce the idea that she is a tool for the Democratic Party. Her best bet was to have Congressmen come to her, while she stayed away.
  •  Saints. (4.00)
    I see that Saint Howard has been replaced by Saint Cindy. Cindy can do no wrong, and all who disagree must be defeated!

    Dean was right. There is a wide disagreement amongst Democrats (like it or not) about where to go from here on Iraq. As a chairman of the DNC, he is not in a position to push through one stance. Besides, he has always stated that "now that we're there, we can't leave".

    I do not have my own blog.

    by Frank on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 07:52:02 AM PDT

  •  oh good, more flame bait (4.00)
    Let's pit democrats against each other and make specious characterizations of their statements so we can all fight. It's such a fun game.

    Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

    by TeresaInPa on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 07:52:16 AM PDT

    •  i didn't (none)
      characterize dean's statements, i linked to them

      read them yourself

      check the video on truthout.org for cindy's statements

      then call this infighting if you continue to believe that dean is one of us

      http://www.davidswanson.org

      by David Swanson on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 07:57:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Flip-flopper (none)
        Now Dean has released a statement bragging about the fact that he met with Cindy

        i didn't characterize dean's statements

        I've got blisters on my fingers!

        by Elwood Dowd on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:02:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You did mischaracterize his remarks (none)
        when you refered to them as bragging. Everyone has their part to play David. Cindy is doing great and so is Dean. I think it's a very stupid idea to attack one of the very few people we having working on the inside to make real change and make the party more responsive to our voices, just because he is not coming out with some position you and I support. Don't create a conflict where there shouldn't be one. Dean couldn't have been more comlimentary of Cindy and that is all we need to worry about now. If there is going to be some PDA verses the rest of the LIBERAL's, (yes I am very liberal and pro-palestine and everything) those of us who understand what Dean is doing and the decisions he makes, I don't see that as a very good development.

        Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

        by TeresaInPa on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 11:55:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's better that we fight it out... (4.00)
      else we risk ending up with another consensus candidate in 2008 whom everyone likes but whom no one loves.
      •  fight what out? (none)
        There is no fight with Dean. He is doing his best to make sure we don't have the same kind of fiasco we had with the primaries in 2004. Shall we let him do that or insist that he shoot himself in the foot for the sake of our vanity?

        Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

        by TeresaInPa on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 12:00:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  First of all... (none)
    your link isn't working for me so I can't see the actual statement by Governor Dean. Therefore, I can't tell how you know he's "bragging" about it.

    Second, there are those who support Cindy's right to speak freely, demonstrate, etc. without specifically supporting her stance on the war. Including many Democrats. You think that's meaningless?

    Third, I suppose the war might be "the most pressing concern of most Democrats". For me, the most pressing concern is taking our government back from the Insanistas who are in control now. Once that is accomplished, the war, the environment, health care, etc. can be resolved in favor of sanity.

    Fourth, what's with the drunk,  neurologically impaired stuff?

    "I was so easy to defeat, I was so easy to control, I didn't even know there was a war."

    by RonV on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 07:56:00 AM PDT

    •  the link (none)
      works for me
      it's
      http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/3170

      sure, support her right to speak freely

      but if you say "I support Cindy" most people are going to think that means you support ending this criminal war, not that you support her right to speak

      Dean appears drunk - ask him

      http://www.davidswanson.org

      by David Swanson on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 07:59:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Dean isn't drunk. (none)

        We shape the clay into a pot, but it is the emptiness inside that holds whatever we want. - Lao-tzu

        by myeye on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:09:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Are you a Clarkie? (none)

        We shape the clay into a pot, but it is the emptiness inside that holds whatever we want. - Lao-tzu

        by myeye on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:44:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Are you speaking for PDA officially? (none)
        You say you are helping them build communications.  Just wondered if your views were your own.  I did not think PDA would be that ugly toward Dean.

        "I'm willing to say things that are not popular but ordinary people know are right." Howard Dean

        by floridagal on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 09:08:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i'm not (none)
          expressing an official PDA position

          there are many in PDA who remain deluded about Dean

          there are many others who see him as a useless sell-out

          sorry if that's ugly.  the point is that it's true and needs to be faced and dealt with.

          http://www.davidswanson.org

          by David Swanson on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 09:17:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It's about Iraq (none)
          I think PDA's had it in for Howard since his statement in April about withdrawing from Iraq.  Those "open letters" from Tom Hayden and Dennis Kucinich in The Nation weren't an interesting coincidence.

          Neither is this:

          David Swanson is creator of MeetWithCindy.org, co-founder of the AfterDowningStreet.org coalition, a writer and activist, and the Washington Director of Democrats.com. He is a board member of Progressive Democrats of America, and serves on the Executive Council of the Washington-Baltimore Newspaper Guild, TNG-CWA. He has worked as a newspaper reporter and as a communications director, with jobs including Press Secretary for Dennis Kucinich's 2004 presidential campaign, Media Coordinator for the International Labor Communications Association, and three years as Communications Coordinator for ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. Swanson obtained a Master's degree in philosophy from the University of Virginia in 1997. His website is www.davidswanson.org.

          I'm a wee bit skeptical about all this.

          Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

          by mini mum on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 09:21:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Dean said what he always said. (none)
            And they went after him with guns drawn.  They made it sound like he changed position.  It was ugly.

            Me, too, skeptical, that is.  I hear Dennis Kucinich was not the march either.  Heard he was at the Green convention.

            "I'm willing to say things that are not popular but ordinary people know are right." Howard Dean

            by floridagal on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 09:37:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  a lot of these people are the same asshats (none)
            who voted for Nader in 2000 believing the rhetoric that Gore would be just like bush. They were used like tools for Naders plan to punish the Clinton whitehouse for ignoring his monstrous ego. While some people who voted for Nader are just fine, some are idealogues who won't give up the resentment at Clinton. So they moved on to Kucinich and insist on attacking their closest allies insisting that THEY should be the only grassroots organization for the true believers. Apparently they are not interested in a democratic party which is more responsive to them if it means they don't get to attack Dean for not being pure enough.

            Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

            by TeresaInPa on Thu Sep 29, 2005 at 03:56:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Dean's statement (4.00)
    Meeting with Cindy Sheehan

    I met with Cindy Sheehan and three activist supporters here in my office at the DNC (two of whom were involved in the Presidential race) on Saturday after the rally. Some of you have met her, but for those who have not, I thought I would share my impressions.

    She is a delightful person. She had not a drop of holier than thou zealotry. She is unpretentious and very clear. All this I expected, given the terrible sacrifice she has made, and her willingness to speak out.

    What I was surprised at was her ability to be so comfortable in her own skin. After she became a phenomenon in Crawford, the Republican spin team realized she was a real threat. Cindy Sheehan, made a tremendous personal sacrifice. A sacrifice being made by too many American families who have had loved ones killed or maimed in this war.

    Cindy has credibility the Administration does not have. Even the President tried to diminish her by saying that she did not believe in fighting terrorism. His minions, of course, did much worse, trying to make out that she was a media savvy manipulator -- and even spreading false rumors that she was anti-Semitic.

    No one is untouched in the face of personal attack, but Cindy exudes an inner calm and a self-confidence which made it clear to me that she will not back down. I respect and support what she is doing in standing up and speaking out.

    Whether you think the Iraq war is a good idea or not, all of us should support Cindy Sheehan. Perhaps the grossest disservice the Republican leadership has inflicted on our country is not the war, the huge deficits, or even the divisive appeals to the worst fears of voters. Rather it is the notion that it is unpatriotic to disagree with the most partisan President in our life time, and that dissent harms our country. Nothing could be farther from the truth -- we are a strong country because we have the right to dissent.

    In fact it is the attempts of the Administration to fight dissent with personal attacks as they did during the Nixon era are that diminish our country in the long term.

    Cindy Sheehan is honest in the face of a dishonest and corrupt Washington culture. She is plain spoken in an era of cynicism and propaganda, she in committed and idealistic in a time where our government has abandoned what is right for America in favor of what is right for the Republican party. We need more Cindy Sheehans.

    Posted by Howard Dean at 06:06 PM

    •  Thanks for posting this. (none)
      The link still isn't working for me.

      So, that's what the diarist says is a "meaningless", "bragging", and "drunk"-en statement by Governor Dean?

      Interesting...

      "I was so easy to defeat, I was so easy to control, I didn't even know there was a war."

      by RonV on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:12:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks for posting this. (none)
      I always expect Dean to be eloquent and I've seldom been disappointed. The crucial part of this speaks to the common values we have as Americans in viewing dissent as an important part of our discourse, not as treason. Although I was attracted to him initially because of what he had to say on Iraq, it was his commitment to the principles our country was founded on which kept me in the campaign.

      Remember Dean promised he wouldn't be making policy when he took over as DNC chair. I wish he would, but that was the agreement. Our elected officials are supposed to be doing that. Don't blame Dean because he's trying to herd cats. We haven't heard much of late, but I hope he's continuing the work of strengthening the local parties. That seemed a winning strategy to me after going through the last campaign. Time will tell.

      government policies have real consequences in people's lives

      by Debby on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 10:30:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Memories Are Short Around Here (4.00)
    Recall that Dean soothed the (insane) fears of Congressional Dems by promising that he would stick to the business of party building and leave policy to the Congressional types.  From where I sit, he has been sticking to his knitting, while I don't always know what the Congressional Dems are doing.

    While I wish I could hear more of the old Dean (who would likely be more engaging on the war and it consequences), he does not -- by agreement -- set the policy agenda.

    Everybody has a job description, you know.

    There is nothing left to blame but blame itself.

    by cassandra m on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:06:23 AM PDT

    •  I think what the diarist and others... (none)
      ...are reacting to is the change in Dean's lean.  From the inauguration until about early summer, he was not a guy who worried about whether it was in his job description to carry the torch on hard issues, the war included.  Now he's suddenly Captain Protocol.

      Does it always have to be Dean?  No.  Should we be hearing more from Congressional Dems?  Hell, yes.  But there is a shift.  And given recent history it is not hysterical to wonder whether it marks yet another softening on behalf of party leadership.  What it looks and smells like to me is Democrats becoming content to watch Bush and his party bleed to death slowly for fear of appearing tasteless or merciless by driving the knife in deeper.  Yes, the momentum of public opinion is on our side.  But the other guys are still alive and they are still fighting, and if no one steps forward to speak loudly, plainly and clearly about what is wrong, and present an alternative in broad strokes, they will regain their footing.  It will happen.

      There is no reason to hedge on this war.  Hedging on this war doomed us last year and it will doom us again.

      "The American people will trust the Democratic Party to defend America when they believe that Democrats will defend other Democrats." Wesley Clark

      by The Termite on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:49:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There is no change in Dean (none)
        He has a huge job to do and he is busy doing it. Let's not get addicted to hearing the man on TV every week. It is quite possible Cindy said something about Deans remarks that she either misunderstood or didn't communicate well to the crowd at PDA.

        Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

        by TeresaInPa on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 12:29:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Gee whiz (4.00)
    It's like getting things done in a democracy takes multiple political representatives on your side or something.  In fact, it's almost like just repeating a single policy prescription ad nauseum without trying to figure out how to get a majority of Congresspeople over to your position won't magically make it work.  Wow, that Howard Dean sure is out of touch...

    "It's like we got Merrill Lynched"- Kanye West

    by ChicagoDem on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:07:35 AM PDT

  •  Talk to Wes (4.00)
    Cindy said she asked Dean whether the war would be part of the agenda.  He replied, she said, that he'd like it to be but couldn't figure out how, because it was such a hard question.

    Maybe he should have a chat with Wes Clark. You can hear Wes at the Rangle Iraq War Forum along with Cindy. They were both on the panel along with Charlie, NAACP president, Kweisi Mfume; and commentators, E.J. Dionne and Mark Shields.

    "Telling the truth is a noble cause".
    -BOHICA

    by BOHICA on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:17:43 AM PDT

    •  Wes said we couldn't pull out of Iraq right now. (none)
      He sort of squelched that idea.

      I am very stunned at this thread overall.

      "I'm willing to say things that are not popular but ordinary people know are right." Howard Dean

      by floridagal on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:38:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually (none)
        He is showing us how to start getting out if the administration only had the will to do it. I like his last line in the video, "Don't call it a victory. What we call it is our contribution to regional security and cooperation"

        He also tells the administration to shit or get off the pot.

        The growing chorus of voices demanding a pullout should seriously alarm the Bush administration, because President Bush and his team are repeating the failure of Vietnam: failing to craft a realistic and effective policy and instead simply demanding that the American people show resolve. Resolve isn't enough to mend a flawed approach -- or to save the lives of our troops. If the administration won't adopt a winning strategy, then the American people will be justified in demanding that it bring our troops home.

        "Telling the truth is a noble cause".
        -BOHICA

        by BOHICA on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:56:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sure. (4.00)
          Like this administartion will do anything sane.

          I found it odd that Clark counselled House members who are demanding a withdrawal timetable that they are taking the wrong tack.

          I also note that Clark speaks for himself while Dean is the head of the DNC and, therefore, is not free to speak only his opinion, but must be a face of the  party.  And, unfortunately at present, there is not agreement among House and Senate Dems on the best way to approach the Iraq fiasco.

          And Clark's take on Iraq, in my estimation, is dead wrong.

          Lieberman/Bayh `08: Because America needs a nap!

          by Bob Johnson on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 09:07:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I believe Clark says we need to win. (none)
      Yes, he says Bush has it wrong, but Clark is not suggesting withdrawal as a strategy.  In fact, he counselled those in House advocating for a withdrawal timetable that their strategy was all wrong.

      Lieberman/Bayh `08: Because America needs a nap!

      by Bob Johnson on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:53:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Diplomacy is the No. 1 tool" (none)

        Clark Sways Some on Iraq Strategy

        By Erin P. Billings
        Roll Call Staff
        September 22, 2005

        After hearing a presentation from retired Gen. Wesley Clark on Tuesday night, a bloc of House Democrats who have been calling for an immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq admitted Clark's comments are prompting them to take a new look at the issue.

        Clark met privately with the members of the Out of Iraq Caucus to give them his perspective on the ongoing conflict and offer advice on how Democrats should frame their arguments for bringing troops home. His call: Avoid specific timelines for withdrawal and focus instead on calling for and developing strategies for success that rely not on the military, but on diplomacy.

        Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.), who formed the Out of Iraq Caucus, said Clark gave the group "good recommendations" about how to move forward in talking about bringing an end to the war and developing a strategy to bring home U.S. forces. The Out of Iraq Caucus is developing a strategic plan on the matter to be released in the coming months.

        "I think he gave us some more to think about, and more to think about in this whole area of diplomacy," she said. "He gave us good recommendations that we can form a consensus around."

        "What he did was refocus me, and all of us, in coming up with a plan for diplomacy," Waters added. "We decided we would get together and talk about and formulate a plan based on what he told us to lead this country and pressure this administration on the diplomatic issues that it hasn't been involved in."

        <snip>
        Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.), who is helping lead that charge, said "we broke the silence" and there is "no question in anybody's mind that we have to discuss what is going to happen in Iraq. We have to put together a plan."

        Woolsey missed Clark's presentation Tuesday, but organized an ad hoc hearing last week with national security experts on ways to end the war and will be among the participants at this weekend's anti-war rally in Washington. She said those experts join Clark in advising that diplomacy be atop any exit plan.

        "Diplomacy is the No. 1 tool that our administration doesn't know how to use at all," she said.

        <snip>

        A Clark ally, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the former general has "become the go-to guy for Congressional Democrats on national security and the war in Iraq."

        This source said Clark's experience and familiarity with Iraq puts him in a unique position to lend advice to the Democrats - even the most liberal in the party. He advises without lecturing and has the experience and credibility to back up his ideas, this source said.

        "In that role, he walks it like he talks it," this source said. "He's talking to all sides in trying to unify Democrats on at least developing a plan as an alternative to the befuddlement that is the administration's policy."

        "Telling the truth is a noble cause".
        -BOHICA

        by BOHICA on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 09:06:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  WIll you admit that this administration (4.00)
          ... will not and, in fact, cannot use diplomacy to solve Iraq?

          Fisrt, they could care less about diplomacy.  They've proven that time and time again.

          Second, they couldn't use diplomacy even if by some miracle they wanted to.  Their credibility is shot, worldwide.

          So what is Wes really counselling?  Political posturing?  While more people die?  Seems a bit cynical to me.

          Basically, Wes is providing cover for Hillary and the Dem warhawks who would have to flip-flop if they started advocating withdrawal.

          He's doing Hill and Bill another favor.

          Always the loyal soldier.

          Lieberman/Bayh `08: Because America needs a nap!

          by Bob Johnson on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 09:10:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I think he is just fine with out chatting with (none)
      Clark. Clarks thinks we need to win in Iraq. It is also quite possible that Cindy mischaracterized Dean;s statements because she is so determined in what she is doing.

      Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

      by TeresaInPa on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 12:32:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Won't Get Fooled Again. (4.00)
    He is not our Dean anymore.

    "Hire me," Cindy said

    I'm confused. Which is the new boss we're meeting that's the same as the old boss, again?

  •  Here is Dean's statement, judge it yourself. (none)
    Meeting with Cindy Sheehan
    Posted by Howard Dean on September 27, 2005 at 06:06 PM

    I met with Cindy Sheehan and three activist supporters here in my office at the DNC (two of whom were involved in the Presidential race) on Saturday after the rally. Some of you have met her, but for those who have not, I thought I would share my impressions.

    She is a delightful person. She had not a drop of holier than thou zealotry. She is unpretentious and very clear. All this I expected, given the terrible sacrifice she has made, and her willingness to speak out.

    What I was surprised at was her ability to be so comfortable in her own skin. After she became a phenomenon in Crawford, the Republican spin team realized she was a real threat. Cindy Sheehan, made a tremendous personal sacrifice. A sacrifice being made by too many American families who have had loved ones killed or maimed in this war.

    Cindy has credibility the Administration does not have. Even the President tried to diminish her by saying that she did not believe in fighting terrorism. His minions, of course, did much worse, trying to make out that she was a media savvy manipulator -- and even spreading false rumors that she was anti-Semitic.

    No one is untouched in the face of personal attack, but Cindy exudes an inner calm and a self-confidence which made it clear to me that she will not back down. I respect and support what she is doing in standing up and speaking out.

    Whether you think the Iraq war is a good idea or not, all of us should support Cindy Sheehan. Perhaps the grossest disservice the Republican leadership has inflicted on our country is not the war, the huge deficits, or even the divisive appeals to the worst fears of voters. Rather it is the notion that it is unpatriotic to disagree with the most partisan President in our life time, and that dissent harms our country. Nothing could be farther from the truth -- we are a strong country because we have the right to dissent.

    In fact it is the attempts of the Administration to fight dissent with personal attacks as they did during the Nixon era are that diminish our country in the long term.

    Cindy Sheehan is honest in the face of a dishonest and corrupt Washington culture. She is plain spoken in an era of cynicism and propaganda, she in committed and idealistic in a time where our government has abandoned what is right for America in favor of what is right for the Republican party. We need more Cindy Sheehans.

    "I'm willing to say things that are not popular but ordinary people know are right." Howard Dean

    by floridagal on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:41:25 AM PDT

  •  Yeah, my guess is Dean was 'just drunk.' (none)
    Or maybe wasted on heroin.  Or crack.  Or he has a "neurological problem."  Or maybe he's overweight and his brain is clogged by fatty tissue.  Or he was sleep-talking when he said that.  Or...

    Well, one of those.

    Lieberman/Bayh `08: Because America needs a nap!

    by Bob Johnson on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:47:45 AM PDT

  •  I Hate To Say And Expect Flames But.... (none)
    Dean was never the anti-war candidate. Kucinich was. Dean through personal opportunism or simple mistake swept in and took that mantle. But never intended to honor it. You could see in what he said right from the beginning, if you weren't blinded by an image of him that was never real, that he intended to pursue the war while in the short term capitalizing on anger over it.

    I was never a Deaniac and have issues with anyone who was, because their analytical abilities came up very short. The choice in the primaries was between Carol Moseley Braun and Dennis Kucinich on the anti-war side, John Kerry and Wes Clark on the anti-this-war-this-way side, and Gephardt and Lieberman on the pro-war side. All Dean really had to offer was a "run to the right of Bush" strategy, which he promoted for those actually listening to the words coming out of his mouth.

    I support Dean as DNC chair, supported him for that position, and like him in that position pretty well. But Dean was always a fraud RE the War, and those who supported him as anti-war need to be told that they were suckers, so that hopefully they will wise up for next time.

    9/11 + 4 Years = Katrina... Conservatism Kills.

    by NewDirection on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:48:26 AM PDT

    •  Thank you, thank you!!! (4.00)
      Until now, I didn't realize I was "blinded" by Dean's "unreality". Until I read your words, I was a "sucker" whose "...analytical abilities came up very short."

      Now, thanks to you, I have seen the light!!!

      How could I have been so stupid?

      "I was so easy to defeat, I was so easy to control, I didn't even know there was a war."

      by RonV on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 09:00:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Might be correct... (none)
      ...but what attracted me to Dean about the war in Iraq was he opposed it and labeled Bush and his toadies hadling of the war incompetent.  For me, it was finally finding someone who had some courage to ask real questions about the mess this country was in.  Up until that point, the only strategy Democrats had was "clap louder".    

      For the lefties who thought Dean was the anit-war messiah, what can you say?  At least we found common ground, created a network of activists across the country and changed the debate.  Those are all good things.

      •  Some More Points: (none)
        "what attracted me to Dean about the war in Iraq was he opposed it"
        * Past tense. He had opposed it before it was started. In the present tense throughout the campaign despite seemingly pro-pullout moves like opposing funding... He in fact, almost secretly, supported the war. This clear-from-the-outside duplicity was frightening to the rest of us. He was very angry about the war but would continue to fight it. Or not, depending on the sound byte you believed at that moment. For many of us, Kerry's position was a lot clearer despite it's portrayal as anything but.

        "and labeled Bush and his toadies hadling of the war incompetent."
        * Well and good and true. But as much as I love the state of Vermont, it has the population of the Long Island, NY, county that I grew up in. It's chief exports are chocolate products, marijuana, maple syrup, cheese, and some plywood. And Dean was on the centrist side in that state. Better than Bush as a military strategist? I don't doubt it. But competence at calling others incompetent does not make one competent to do the job better than someone who's expertise lies in that area, be it foreign policy or military.

        "For me, it was finally finding someone who had some courage to ask real questions about the mess this country was in.  Up until that point, the only strategy Democrats had was "clap louder".
        * Kucinich was the first anti-war candidate, drafted into it by net activists, and the online fundraising campaign built up around him was the model that the Deam Campaign ran with.

        9/11 + 4 Years = Katrina... Conservatism Kills.

        by NewDirection on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 09:59:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I disagree with your analysis (none)
          Also, I'm not going to engage in a tit-for-tat parsing of words or positions.  I made my thoughts known.  Wringing our hands over who was "right" in 2003/2004 with the hindsight of 2005 does not solve the problems we face today or provide a strategy for moving forward.
          •  I Think Hindsight Does Help (none)
            There is a perpetual fascination especially on this site with criticizing (or utterly abusing) the Kerry campaign and its perceived failures. That there is no desire whatsoever to find fault with Dean's campaign, or Clark's, or Edwards' for that matter, is an error. We should look at what failed in the general election but also what failed with Democrats... And not assume it was all cowardice en masse in our ranks, or Karl Rove.

            That said, the whole purpose is to build a better model for next year and beyond.

            So, my statement is that a DNC plan with no plan for Iraq is no plan at all. The party would be well served to convene a convention specifically to address this issue. Go into it with the expectation of agreeing on a solid plank plan. If that's Pottery Barn, so be it, that's at least clear although it needs clear goals and requests to meet those goals.

            9/11 + 4 Years = Katrina... Conservatism Kills.

            by NewDirection on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 12:25:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  still pissed off that all the anti war vote didn't (none)
          go to DK? Get over it.

          Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

          by TeresaInPa on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 12:39:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What I'm Pissed About (none)
            Is that no supposedly viable Democrat will just oppose the damned war present and future, and that no supposedly viable Democratic Party members will insist upon that.

            9/11 + 4 Years = Katrina... Conservatism Kills.

            by NewDirection on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 12:42:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  then why focus on Dean? (none)
              He is not "viable" because he is not running...

              Some folks around here really need to let go of the priamry.

              And I got further news for some of the posters here....most of the 2004 candidates will not make it out of the box as retreds in 2008...

              Sorry, but you had your shot and it is over...

              •  I'm Not Focused On Dean The Presidential Candidate (none)
                But Dean the DNC Chair. And while the primary is over the mistakes of the primary persist, and are still mistakes today more than ever as opposition to the war grows well past 50% but the Dem position on it gets more and more watery.

                9/11 + 4 Years = Katrina... Conservatism Kills.

                by NewDirection on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 03:25:49 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Bullshit. (none)
      Dean was always clear that he wasn't an anti-war candidate. He was portrayed as such by the media but if asked, he always made his position clear. And I did listen to the words coming out of his mouth, thank you very much. He was never "run to the right of Bush." Call me a sucker, but I believe you're the one deluded. Severely so.

      government policies have real consequences in people's lives

      by Debby on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 10:14:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nope.... (3.00)
        ...I know too many Deaniacs who thought he was anti-war. Congrats on not being one of them. So it wasn't Dean you had a problem understanding. But apparently you missed or simply weren't concerned with what a lot of his supporters thought.

        Well in any case I was rooting for Dean going into Iowa and watched the scream, live, and it perfectly expressed my feelings. Nevertheless, his positions on the war, like his positions on the PATRIOT Act, were chimera. My support for him was certainly non-exclusive.

        9/11 + 4 Years = Katrina... Conservatism Kills.

        by NewDirection on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 10:19:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Huh? (none)
          apparently you missed or simply weren't concerned with what a lot of his supporters thought.

          And if I were, what was I supposed to do about this? I will say that anyone who came to our local meetup with these misconceptions was quickly disabused of the notion that we were a anti-war sit-in. We did have anti-war supporters among us, but they supported Dean for other reasons. Is that maybe where your confusion comes from?

          Again, the media and his opponents tried to paint Dean as the anti-war candidate. They did this because at the time that Dean was speaking against our going into Iraq, it was a political liability to do so. When asked, Dean always made clear his actual position.

          government policies have real consequences in people's lives

          by Debby on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 11:05:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's Not That You Should Have Done Anything (none)
            About it.

            It's that you shouldn't give me a rebuke for pointing out to the many anti-war people who thought Dean was anti-war, that they were mistaken. Rebukes work better when you aren't factually agreeing with the person you are trying to rebuke.

            9/11 + 4 Years = Katrina... Conservatism Kills.

            by NewDirection on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 11:11:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The rebuke (none)
              comes from your statements that Dean willingly assumed the anti-war mantle and that his campaign strategy was to run to the right of Bush. I dispute these things. And YOU are the one that suggested what other Dean supporters thought is somehow MY problem. And I would again point out that we did have anti-war people in our folds. They remained anti-war but they supported Dean for his other positions. Is that perhaps where you get your idea that so many Deaniacs thought Dean was anti-war?

              government policies have real consequences in people's lives

              by Debby on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 11:39:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Dean Said So (none)
                He said he planned to run to the right of Bush. I saw him say it. He said a lot of stuff like that. As for assuming the anti-war mantle willingly, yeah, I think he did that pretty clearly although I couldn't dig up a transcript with him saying so in one sentence I guess.

                "And YOU are the one that suggested what other Dean supporters thought is somehow MY problem."

                No. I did not.

                As I recall, Dean also capitalized on anti-PATRIOT sentiment while slyly saying he had no real problem with it, just Ashcroft (although I think Edwards was the worst offender on that score).

                9/11 + 4 Years = Katrina... Conservatism Kills.

                by NewDirection on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 11:47:02 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Here: (none)
                  "So it wasn't Dean you had a problem understanding. But apparently you missed or simply weren't concerned with what a lot of his supporters thought."

                  This suggests to me that it is somehow my problem. Your words.

                  If you want to keep alleging these things, I'm going to have to have a link to a transcript. Dean said he was going to run to the right of Bush? I will give you that he might have said something goofy like, "George Bush says he's a conservative but he's not, he's really the most radical person we've had in the White House in 200 years and so by default I'll be running to the right of Bush." That would be rhetoric and not a true statement of policy. Politicians do that sometimes. But I simply won't accept the characterization that Dean was running a fake anti-war campaign while he was secretly plotting to be the next Nixon. That is bullshit.

                  I think you're wrong on this. I was there, too, and I know what I saw and heard. I would gladly read more than one sentence if you could produce something that would prove Dean willingly usurped some anti-war position; I'm not a soundbite kind of gal. You keep making the claims; I can't prove your negative. Still, I've looked through your diaries and comments and you seem like a sincere guy. There is more to this fight than Howard Dean anyway. We're simply going to have to agree to disagree.

                  government policies have real consequences in people's lives

                  by Debby on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 12:32:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Okay... (none)
                    Well. Look, you said above you didn't want to get into parsing words. I don't either, you misread my intent with the above statemnt but, honestly, who cares.

                    I googled it to see if I was the only one to note the "run to the right" comment by Dean, and maybe I was. Who the heck cares, I think you know it's true anyway. I'm not suggesting he was going to nuke Tehran or anything.

                    As I said, while not a Deaniac, I cut him a check or two, and rooted for him in Iowa although I was not at all surprised when Kerry won, something I had seen coming a ways off. I think Dean's big mistake was bringing thousands of volunteers who were all saying god knows what and looking all kinds of ways to go door to door in Iowa where people vote Democrat for different reasons than those campaign workers might have thought.

                    But on the other hand I think Dean had he been truly an opponent of the war, present tense, of the PATRIOT Act and all else that followed... If he had been all of that with the same fire I think he would have won and then won again in November, pulling popular opinion along with him. I am so, so sick of hollow opposition to conservatism. It's not enough to accept that our candidates will see conservative problems to their conclusion via preordained conservative solutions, merely trusting that they will flirt with rightwing positioning on Iran and Venzuela et al., but refrain from thoroughly screwing the pooch.

                    9/11 + 4 Years = Katrina... Conservatism Kills.

                    by NewDirection on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 01:08:48 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  bullcrap (none)
                  Dean said he would run to the right of bush on balancing the budget and he NEVER said he approved of the patriot act. You say you are not concerned with Dean the candidate but you are rehashing the Kucinichbot talking points from the primaries. You guys are still bitter that you didn't get all the anti-war vote. I can't believe how pathetic this is. You are still trying to say that Dean supporters didn't know where he stood. PDA can disapear into well deserved obscurity if this is the way you all plan to move forward.

                  Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

                  by TeresaInPa on Thu Sep 29, 2005 at 03:48:57 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  What "You Guys?" (none)
                    What the heck are you talking about, with "you guys?" I never wanted anyone but the best candidate and best future president to win the primary, and frankly was never able to really make up my mind as to who that would be. I never ruled Dean out although I had concerns about Kucinich in that regard, not to fault him but getting nominated would have required about five other contenders getting struck by lightning which would have made for an awkward convention.

                    However, I am able to debate these politicians on their actual merits as well as their Madison Avenue appeal.

                    9/11 + 4 Years = Katrina... Conservatism Kills.

                    by NewDirection on Thu Sep 29, 2005 at 08:41:57 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  They supported Dean because he was anti (none)
                this war. I am one of those anti-war people. I also supported him because of his brilliant job of running VT and improving people's lives while balancing the budget and being fiscally sane.

                Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

                by TeresaInPa on Thu Sep 29, 2005 at 04:11:25 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  actually...there is a poll (none)
          out there that lets you know exactly what his supporters supported.

          What you are doing is making the typical mistake of those who were not Dean supporters...which is confusing his supporters' positions with his.

          Many of Dean's supporters were anti-war....but they were perfectly clear on Dean's position on the issue.

          Truth is, most Dean supporters were drawn to him becasue he spoke his mind, was genuine and lsitened to his supporters (thereby enabling them to be part of the process).

          Anything is is just bullsh*t perpetrated by people who don't know what they are talking about.

          Or do you really want to get into a discussion of what non-Kucinich supporters "think" about why you supported your guy.

          Stop being an asshat and pound the pavement for your candidate.

    •  bullshit (none)
      but thanks for the crackpot DK supporters point of view once again....because there can never be too many returns to the primary wars to help us win in 2006 and 2008.

      Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

      by TeresaInPa on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 12:36:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You Are Getting On My Nerves (none)
        And for the record I sent checks to many of the candidates in the primaries because I wanted them all to have a voice and I saw a lot to like in many of them.

        Kucinich supporter? I won't take that as an insult but it's hardly precise. Dollar for dollar, I'd be a Dean supporter I think in the primaries. And I was an early draft-Clark signer and supporter. Still, there is a lot to be said for a candidate who actually stands for our positions, no? I support Feingold for that reason in 08 and to hell with Roberts.

        I like Gore for his competence and concern in certain areas, Clark for same, Feingold on the issues others won't touch, and I like Dean really well at the DNC if only he would plan for Iraq.

        I've seen your name around here and never got the impression there was anything the matter with you; I guess you are just having a bad day.

        9/11 + 4 Years = Katrina... Conservatism Kills.

        by NewDirection on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 01:30:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This diarist and PDA..is this good strategy? (none)
    Here is a statement from the diarist's website, and I am not sure this is a wise strategy for PDA to pursue...he appears to be trying to hurt Howard Dean and the DNC by using Cindy.  This is not fair to either.

    "PDA Communications
    By David Swanson

    Tim has asked me to help with developing a national network for PDA communications, meaning a group of people at the national level, and others at the state and local levels, working together to make our voices heard. I'm hoping that this discussion today will produce some ideas for this and some volunteers to help with it."

    Perhaps the strategy should be rethought.

    "I'm willing to say things that are not popular but ordinary people know are right." Howard Dean

    by floridagal on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:49:58 AM PDT

  •  Our message does not have to be (none)
    anti-war, it should be anti-lies. The war is one issue, the lies are another larger issue.  We have to come out against the fact that they lied to get us into war, lied about Abu-Gharaib, lied about Guantanamo, and everything else.  All Americans can identify with wanting to be told the truth by our leaders.  Cindy's message is as much about lies as about war.
  •  Calm down (none)
    Dean has a long time until 2006 to figure out a policy.

    Do you want the Dems to run on an anti-war platform then lose because they are called "weak" ?

  •  Democrats.com and PDA, DSM.org...wise move? (none)
    The diarist is:

    "Co-Founder of www.afterdowningstreet.org, Washington Director of www.Democrats.com, board member of www.pdamerica.org."

    So why is this going on like this.  The thread is sickening to me.  

    "I'm willing to say things that are not popular but ordinary people know are right." Howard Dean

    by floridagal on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 08:55:05 AM PDT

  •  This one of the reasons why I wanted (none)
    Democrats to stay, far, far, far, far away from Cindy Sheehan.  No good can come from it.
  •  Board of directors of PDA...why do this? (none)
    http://pdamerica.org/about/board.php

    I have admired this group, but taking this as a tactic is not very wise.   Quite frankly, I see Howard Dean as trying to be fair to everyone.

    I hope this is not the official policy of PDA, but David is on the Board of Directors as he said.  Scroll down.

    We could accomplish a lot more working together than splitting off at both ends.

    "I'm willing to say things that are not popular but ordinary people know are right." Howard Dean

    by floridagal on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 09:22:05 AM PDT

  •  What's so f'ing hard about it? (none)
    The war was a bad idea at the start.  It has become progressively worse over time, and it will only continue to get worse.  As the saying goes, when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing that you do is stop digging.

    The public at large knows that the war is a disaster.  When will the party as a whole come to this fundamental understanding?

    Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

    by RFK Lives on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 09:36:51 AM PDT

  •  Dean needs to lead and not be led (none)

    It is disappointing to hear Howard say something like:  "I'd like it to be but can't figure out how".

    Dean clearly thought that the War was wrong in 2003 before it started.  Not only have those reasons not changed 3 years later, but a whole unimagined set of immoralities, corruption, and blunders have followed as part of this war that have made it even a greater disgrace (one from which America's image may never recover).

    Back in 2003 only about 30%-40% opposed the War.
    Now we have 55%-60% opposed to the War.

    So, the point is, Dean's convictions, that he had in 2003, should now (after all the horror that has resulted) be only more dramatically strengthened and unwavering.

    Instead we see Howard Dean punting on the issue in almost Hillary Clintonesque fashion.

    What happened to giving the Party some backbone?

    I agree with Cindy:  Is this really that hard?

    What is it that is the hard part here:
    -rejecting an unneccesary War of aggression?
    -rejecting War on a country that never attacked us?

    -rejecting the false idea that U.N. Inspections could not weapons concern?
    -rejecting the policies of reckless killing & torture?
    -rejecting an enterprise that has made Terrorism worse?
    -rejecting an enterprise that was based on lies?
    -rejecting the $300 billion dollars of taxpayer money wasted?
    -rejecting the War Profiteering of Halliburton?
    -rejecting the unnecessary killing of 100,000s of innocent civilians (including many children)?
    -rejecting the unnecessary 20,000 U.S. casualties including 2000 deaths?

    What is it here that is hard?

    The Democratic Party is missing a chance to inspire the country and inspire the world by speaking out against this War and speaking out in opposition to any similar future abusive, immoral, & counter-productive conduct of our military.

    Will Howard Dean ever lead or is he just being led by others (or by the media)?

    Similarly, what ever happened to real Election reform Howard?

    Donna Brazille's little whitewash report is not the story - while John Conyer's report is!

    I know Howard Dean cares.
    I just do not see any more evidence of backbone here than I do from other well-intentioned people, like Richard Gephart, who shrink from the debate and the opportunity to both advance public opinion and also make the Democratic Party's agenda understandable.

    It's not hard Howard, you're just making it hard.

    •  Right (none)
      But he does take positions when he feels like it -- such as opposing Roberts.  He just doesn't take a position on the war.

      http://www.davidswanson.org

      by David Swanson on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 12:32:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think I am going to contact PDA and let (none)
        them know how unimpressed I am with their new tactics and how I no longer trust them because of your attacks on Dean.

        Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

        by TeresaInPa on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 12:54:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  PDA is not the subject or the problem (none)

          The DNC is/was .. and Dean's comments to Sheehan about the D-Party agenda.
          •  Just what were the words Dean said? (none)
            Cindy sounded like she was putting her own spin on his words.  Maybe one of the others who were at the meeting will rise up to defend Howard Dean against a progressive group with many DFA members in it.

            I have been all for her, until I saw the way his words were being used against....without saying the actual words,...just putting her own interpretation on them.

            I wonder how many DFA groups might have second thoughts about this group now?  This is twice now they have gone after him at vulnerable times.  

            There is a difference between holding the ones who voted for it accountable...and putting pressure on a party chair who was against it.

            Bad policy, and it will hurt this group.

            "I'm willing to say things that are not popular but ordinary people know are right." Howard Dean

            by floridagal on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 03:25:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Do you have any proof (none)
      that is exactly what Dean said?

      Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

      by TeresaInPa on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 12:52:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It is clear that many of you in this diary (none)
    have become willing rubes for someone with an agenda.

    I would also suggest that everyone take the time to contact PDA and ask them if this is in any way connected to them.

    I mean after all, you have a poster here who is suggesting that Dean should lead the Democrats' response on the War in Iraq simply because he holds the position of Chair of the DNC.

    So by extension, if someone on the board of PDA is running around the internet attempting to attack Dean using a statement of Cindy Sheehan, then it can only be concluded that this is in fact the policy of the PDA and people should react accordingly when appeals come from this group.

    Until I hear otherwise, I am removing myself from their email roll and removing the bookmark from my browser....

    We have enough idiots running around in this party...how's about some thinkers eh?

  •  Actually, Dean's just doing what his office is... (none)
    ...supposed to do by supporting Cindy: attack the Republicans.

    However, I'd like to ask Dean if he would rather have more of those concerned with a withdrawl strategy or more Cindy Sheehans interested in merely making a spectator sport out of it.

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